# Massachusetts' classification as a... commonwealth? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 27, 2000, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798 "2000-03-27T17:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Breckinshire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71c47a/32.png) [@Breckinshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Breckinshire)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/1 "2000-03-27T17:52:00Z")
I used to date a girl from Massachusetts (no, this isn’t the beginning of a dirty limerick) and she said that Mass. was a commonwealth and not a state. Is this true, and if so, what’s the difference? Do citizens get any special treatment? * * * \*“Life moves pretty fast. If you don’t stop to look around once in a while you could miss it.” - Ferris Bueller \* ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/2 "2000-03-28T06:04:00Z")
No, there’s no difference as it relates to the US. Historically speaking, the difference supposedly would be: A state is a sovereign geopolitical entity. It might be a monarchy, democracy, republic, or a dictatorship. A commonwealth would be a state whose laws are based on or derived from the consent of the people for the common good, or “common weal.” ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/3 "2000-03-28T06:08:00Z")
This is currently being actively discussed in General Questions, see: [I forgot…How many states are there?](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/004301.html) for more details. Cecil originally addressed this question in: [Why is Virginia (and MA and PA and KY) called a commonwealth?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_307.html) ---
**Author:** ![G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c67d28/32.png) [@G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.B.H.Hornswoggler)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/4 "2000-03-27T19:46:00Z")
So, if it’s purely a matter of nomenclature, could, say, **The State of New York** change its official title to **The Most High and Holy Royal Duchy of New York and Albany Plantations** tomorrow? * * * I’m your only friend I’m not your only friend But I’m a little glowing friend But really I’m not actually your friend But I am ---
**Author:** ![Trout\_Mask\_Replica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@Trout\_Mask\_Replica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trout_Mask_Replica)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/5 "2000-03-27T21:14:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Breckinshire: > \*\*I used to date a girl from Massachusetts (no, this isn’t the beginning of a dirty limerick) and she said that Mass. was a commonwealth and not a state. Is this true, and if so, what’s the difference? Do citizens get any special treatment? > \*\* What Cecil has to say on the subject: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_307.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_307.html) * * * TMR You will buy the ukulele, and touch every place. ---
**Author:** ![Boris\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@Boris\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boris_B)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/6 "2000-03-27T21:35:00Z")
I dated just the same person. She was certain there was some great, formal, substantive difference between a state and a commonwealth among the United States. She just couldn’t remember what it was. I told her there was no difference but no, oh no, she didn’t believe me. This is a facet of the phenomenon I call “state exceptionalism”. Everybody is convinced there is something unique about their home state. Some samples (no, I don’t believe them, I’m just paraphrasing): “[Goofy person’s home state] is not a state, it’s a commonwealth, and it’s the only one in the nation. This makes it the only place where [bogus fact] is true.” “Texas can secede from the union any time we get sick of you. It’s in our state constitution.” “Unlike most Southern states, almost nobody is racist in [pick a Southern state out of a hat]. All the people who fought for the Confederacy from that state were just fighting for States’ Rights. The ones who owned slaves just did so to make sure they were properly educated before freeing them.” “[Random state] is home to the country’s oldest shopping mall.” “On TV’s _The Simpsons_, Springfield is obviously set in [whatever].” ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/7 "2000-03-27T23:02:00Z")
As a resident of the Great Commonwealth of Virginia, I am proud of the fact that we can lay claim to Jamestown, site of the first Colony in the New World not otherwise located in Florida, Newfoundland, North Carolina, Greenland, the St. Lawrence River Basin, the Carribean, the American Southwest, Mexico, and South America, discounting of course the “natives” who came from Africa, Phoenicia, Micronesia, Polynesia, pre-Columbus Europe, and Siberia. No other state, I mean Commonwealth, can make that claim. ---
**Author:** ![ASPA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b19c9b/32.png) [@ASPA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASPA)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2000, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/8 "2000-04-03T04:18:00Z")
_Nice reply. Also, I notice, in this thread, someone mentions plantations. Similarly, in the thread, “I forgot…how many states are there,” posted by Banks, there are seriously involved replies telling all sorts of geographica. After sufficient of these posts, I interjected a nonsense or humour reply. It just as vitally pertains here, with a little variation, especially as it considers how we may figure in Canada:_ **WHEN WE FIGURE CANADA** _© 2000 ASPA_ When we figure Canada, Let’s use texbook algebra! If several states secede from us, then annex too, hey Yhat’s a plus! Old planataion hoojaba All leaders know, went far enuff! Now, in the union rebublic, some divide and some withdrah. Still the commonwealths, as such, are sectioned off, to cause this fuss— and some big fuss is very much what constitutes America. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2000, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/9 "2000-04-03T07:05:00Z")
ASPA, could you perhaps translate that into English for those of us who don’t understand your language? It’s a good thing you put your copyright on it, otherwise I’d have guessed bj0rn, and he might have been insulted. ---
**Author:** ![ASPA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b19c9b/32.png) [@ASPA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASPA)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/10 "2000-04-04T05:29:00Z")
> [@](#): > > by waterj2: > ASPA, could you perhaps translate that into English _Certainly!_ The word “that” translates into English _this_ way, um, ahh, _HEY, WAIT_ a minute — the word “that” _IS_ English, I’ll just betcha! (I’d have to get acquainted with an English dictionary to eventually be certain.) As for my above-posted nonsense, I’d have to review it to discuss its merits and I don’t think I ever wanna review it again – except to laugh (or cry) at it. Thamks for your clear opinion, though. It shows that at least one of us knows how to be cogent when it really counts. ---
**Author:** ![ASPA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b19c9b/32.png) [@ASPA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASPA)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/11 "2000-04-04T07:02:00Z")
## Altho it’s the hecklers who ask to know — and hecklers include those who would call me a troll — I’ll share what’s behind and inside pome or at least just a bit f’your notorious note ((re: the one sittin’ above)). ``` DEFENSE OF DISSERTATION ON THE MODEL FIGURES OF CANADA AND NONSENSE University of Dope Submitted by ASPA ``` in partial fulfilment of pHd requiremnts (Piled High Dopiness) The process and rationale I used in wording the above referenced thing includes: After I happened to read the posts in this thread and a related thread, I recalled key words and concepts from the overall theme and discussion to quickly create “talk.” The idea was to see if I could spontaneously shape and relate _nonsense poetry_\*\* from some main words and concepts involved in discussion, and at the same time, umm, well, do other stuff too. ---
**Author:** ![ASPA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b19c9b/32.png) [@ASPA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASPA)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/12 "2000-04-04T07:04:00Z")
errattica: should read: “and inside my pome” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/13 "2000-04-04T15:07:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Da Ace: > \*\*So, if it’s purely a matter of nomenclature, could, say, **The State of New York** change its official title to **The Most High and Holy Royal Duchy of New York and Albany Plantations** tomorrow? > > \*\* Nope. The Constitution in Article IV, Section 4, states: > [@](#): > > The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government… As a Duchy is defined by Merriam-Webster as: > [@](#): > > the territory of a duke or duchess : DUKEDOM And the same source defines Duke (they didn’t bother to define Dukedom) as: > [@](#): > > a sovereign male ruler of a continental European duchy Such a styling, if factual, would be unconstitutional in the regard to the duchy. The appellation of Holy would obviously be in violation of the First Amendment to the Constitution. BTW: I also consider the motto “In God We Trust” as a violation of said amendment. I’m sure that’s covered in another thread. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/14 "2000-04-04T19:45:00Z")
However, New York does have a Dutchess County. I hope this doesn’t mean that the good citizens of Poughkeepsie are in any danger of losing their rights. One of my best friends hails from Wappingers Falls to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Breckinshire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71c47a/32.png) [@Breckinshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Breckinshire)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/15 "2000-04-04T21:46:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Monty: > \*\* BTW: I also consider the motto “In God We Trust” as a violation of said amendment. I’m sure that’s covered in another thread.\*\* ## Good point. Anybody got a link to this thread, or should it be started? _“A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time. When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment and replied, The one I feed the most.” – George Bernard Shaw_ ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2000, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-classification-as-a-commonwealth/9798/16 "2000-04-06T03:47:00Z")
No offense, but whether or not any individual considers the motto a violation of the First Amendment to the US Constitution is rather irrelevant. It is up to the Supreme Court to make that judgment in final analysis. They have more than once cited that motto for the proposition that the First Amendment does not require a godless or god-free government. Citations available upon request. As for the Duchy issue, they can CALL it anything they want. They can’t MAKE it a duchy, because it wouldn’t be the property of a duke. It would, under the constitution, still be a ‘state’ as that political entity is discussed therein.