# Massachusetts recount flips election result by one vote **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 12, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355 "2022-12-12T01:34:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/1 "2022-12-12T01:34:38Z")
The original result had the GOP candidate leading by 10 votes. Unsurprisingly, he now will challenge the result. > **[Massachusetts recount flips state house election to Democrat by one vote](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/11/massachusetts-recount-flips-state-house-race-to-democrat-one-vote)** > > Democrat Kristin Kassner won against Republican opponent Lenny Mirra after a recount shrunk candidates’ narrow vote deficit to one ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/2 "2022-12-12T03:40:54Z")
Every vote really **does** count. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/3 "2022-12-12T05:07:09Z")
A local election in my area was recounted twice, and flipped both times, so therefore the original winner has the seat once again. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/4 "2022-12-12T09:22:43Z")
There have been general elections in the UK where one or another seat goes to multiple recounts (7 is about the highest, I believe). But we don’t regard the seat as won or lost until the Returning Officer declares the count/result as final, usually with the concurrence of all the candidates and their agents: so we don’t know to what degree there might have been different results in each count. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/5 "2022-12-12T10:05:29Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > The original result had the GOP candidate leading by 10 votes. Unsurprisingly, he now will challenge the result. > > [Massachusetts recount flips state house election to Democrat by one vote | Massachusetts | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/11/massachusetts-recount-flips-state-house-race-to-democrat-one-vote) WTF is going on when ANY recount is showing ANY result different than the original? Why, after 200+ years, is the integrity of our elections here fucked up? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/6 "2022-12-12T11:53:31Z")
It’s really not. This is an odd case, which is why it’s making the news. Anyway, when counting votes, people make mistakes, I guess. When the difference is hundreds or thousands, it doesn’t matter, but when it’s 10 votes, it does. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/7 "2022-12-12T12:09:42Z")
There’s nothing new here. Recounts usually have a very small difference from the original count. This time, that very small difference was enough to flip a very close election. Because no system, and no humans, are going to be perfect. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/8 "2022-12-12T12:12:02Z")
From the link: “Some [ballots] were filled out in pencil, some were filled out with different colored ink, some had stray marks. Some had a name written in the write-in and then an oval filled out,…“ [The recount] was just really just to ensure that, between humans and machines, we really caught every vote that was counted,” So it would seem like the first count is by machine, if close enough to matter it triggers a hand recount. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/9 "2022-12-12T13:56:49Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > “Some [ballots] were filled out in pencil, some were filled out with different colored ink, some had stray marks. Some had a name written in the write-in and then an oval filled out,… Sounds like the sort of issues we have over here (from the times I’ve been an election observer\*). But a lot of those are picked up in the verification stages and put aside for the Returning Officer to discuss with the candidates’ agents if there’s a close result). \*I remember one postal ballot where the over-conscientious voter had carefully written their name, address and signature on the actual ballot paper. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/10 "2022-12-12T14:07:18Z")
Note that that quote is from the guy who lost, so those objections may not invalidate those particular ballots. He may just want them to. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/11 "2022-12-12T15:07:24Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Why, after 200+ years, is the integrity of our elections here fucked up? They recounted 27,000 votes and the results changed by less than a dozen. Point out a system on this planet that gives better results. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/12 "2022-12-12T15:21:07Z")
Just to chime in with the others here, the vote count was 99.96% accurate. That’s pretty remarkable, considering human error in counting and people filling out ballots incorrectly or in a confusing way. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/13 "2022-12-12T19:29:04Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > They recounted 27,000 votes and the results changed by less than a dozen. That is 0.0407 percent. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/14 "2022-12-13T17:52:14Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > Just to chime in with the others here, the vote count was 99.96% accurate. Wow! That’s purer than Ivory Soap! ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/15 "2022-12-13T17:54:37Z")
I’m going to starting washing myself with elections results! ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/16 "2022-12-13T18:55:35Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > From the link: > > “Some [ballots] were filled out in pencil, some were filled out with different colored ink, some had stray marks. Some had a name written in the write-in and then an oval filled out,…“ [The recount] was just really just to ensure that, between humans and machines, we really caught every vote that was counted,” > > So it would seem like the first count is by machine, if close enough to matter it triggers a hand recount. You’d be surprised how hard it is to get people to follow simple instructions. A project I worked on several years ago involved high school students writing an essay in a booklet and the booklets were returned to us so that we could scan them and the essays could be scored online. The instructions on the front cover of the booklet clearly stated to write in blue or black ink. We would get essays written in pencil or green/pink/purple ink. Of course, none of those essays would scan properly. I’m not surprised that the folks processing mail-in ballots have the same problem. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/17 "2022-12-16T12:16:28Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > A project I worked on several years ago involved high school students writing an essay in a booklet and the booklets were returned to us so that we could scan them and the essays could be scored online. Funny that I was probably one of the people scoring them online. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/18 "2022-12-16T18:51:50Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I’m going to starting washing myself with elections results! Don’t do it. You’ll never get rid of the smell. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/19 "2022-12-16T19:16:56Z")
I’ve been a poll worker about 8 times, and trust the honor of the local election board and my fellow poll workers, Democrat and Republican. But there are small cracks in the voting system. We use a system of paper ballots, marked with ball point pens and fed into a scanner. If there are double votes in any race, the ballot is spit back out of the scanner. At that point the voter can return the ballot, have it marked spoiled, and get a new ballot — or can press a button to “cast ballot as is.” In that case, the voter’s choice in that race isn’t counted, but the rest of the choices are. However, in a manual recount, a human eye might see that one box is completely darkened with ink, and another box just shows a small random line. Anytime there are paper ballots, ambiguities are possible. But if the election is all digital, with no “paper trail” that makes it raw meat for every conspiracy theorist. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355/20 "2022-12-17T14:26:00Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > Just to chime in with the others here, the vote count was 99.96% accurate Since we are in the dope and thus pendantry, is expected I have to point out that although the final count shifted by 0.04% the number of individual votes that were changed by the recount may have been substantially larger, since it is unlikely that all of the errors were resolved in favor of the Democrat. For example, it could be that the recount identified 92 invalid votes of which 52 were for the Republican vs 40 for the Democrat. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massachusetts-recount-flips-election-result-by-one-vote/976355.md?page=2)