# Massacre in Nairobi shopping mall **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 22, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413 "2013-09-22T02:44:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/1 "2013-09-22T02:44:31Z")
Al-Shabaab, the terrorist group typically described as a Somalian al-Qaeda offshoot, [stormed](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-24191606) an upscale shopping mall in Nairobi, Kenya, and started [shooting](http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/21/world/africa/kenya-mall-gunbattle/index.html?hpt=hp_t1). At least 39 people are dead, some gunmen are still dug in at the mall, and the Kenyan government is carrying out “major operations” that basically have police and special forces military going shop to shop. Nearly 300 people were treated at local hospitals. Do we have any Nairobi Dopers? Can someone explain why Al-Shabaab wanted to commit mass murder in Kenya? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/2 "2013-09-22T02:50:34Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Can someone explain why Al-Shabaab wanted to commit mass murder in Kenya? According to Al-Shabaab, it’s in retaliation for the Kenyan’s military helping the Coalition gov’t in 2011. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/3 "2013-09-22T02:50:37Z")
I’m going to admit something a bit shameful here: my first thought on reading this in the news was “thank god this didn’t happen in the US” ☹ I’m a terrible person. My heart goes out to all those affected in Nairobi. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/4 "2013-09-22T08:52:08Z")
Kenya has am enormous Somali population, both refugees and economic migrants, and a complicated history with Somalia and other neighbors. I am just sick about this. Beyond the attack itself, this is gong to have terrible economic repercussions- A real shame in a country that is ready to boom. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/5 "2013-09-22T09:24:22Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I’m going to admit something a bit shameful here: my first thought on reading this in the news was “thank god this didn’t happen in the US” We’ve had two mass shootings in the US this week, it’s OK to not want a third. Kenya has long been troubled by Al Qaeda related terrorist attacks. I’m sorry to see this happen again in that country. (Historical note: Osama bin Laden landed on the US FBI’s most wanted list not for the attacks in 2001 but for the Dar es Salaam and Nairobi US embassy bombings in 1998) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/6 "2013-09-22T09:45:52Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Can someone explain why Al-Shabaab wanted to commit mass murder in Kenya? They are racists, but I guess we knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/7 "2013-09-22T12:03:25Z")
It’s not about race, it’s about religion. If you are not their brand of Muslim they view you as a valid target. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/8 "2013-09-22T12:09:05Z")
They do seem to have a fondness for enslaving Africans though. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/9 "2013-09-22T12:36:36Z")
So? Race-based slavery is an American peculiarity. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/10 "2013-09-22T12:48:34Z")
It’s about neither race nor religion. Al Shabaab is a political entity, and they are trying to further their political goals. Religion may be an easy way to fire up the ground troops, but in the end it is about politics. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/11 "2013-09-22T13:56:57Z")
The death toll in Nairobi is now 59, and in Pakistan, suicide bombers have [killed](http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-suicide-bomber-pakistan-20130922,0,923285.story) 60 in a Christian church. What gruesomely odd symmetry. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/12 "2013-09-22T14:45:31Z")
It’s almost as if there are people who are willing to kill over religion and who find it very upsetting that others really don’t give a fig about their neighbor’s religion, so upsetting in fact that the fanatics insist on taking the battle to those horrible and tolerant people. :rolleyes: Forget gun control, can we have some religion control at this point in time? ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/13 "2013-09-22T15:09:36Z")
I don’t think this is a racist attack, since this terrorist group seems to recruit people of all races. For example, CNN is reporting that some people have said they saw a white woman with the hostage takers and that this could be [British-born Islamic extremist Samantha Lewthwaite](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17611918) (although as more details come in this may turn out to be untrue). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/14 "2013-09-22T15:19:35Z")
I don’t know why some people are seemingly afraid to acknowledge that religion can be a basis for terrorism just as politics can, or that they seem unable to comprehend that for some people religion and politics are indistinguishable. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/15 "2013-09-22T19:14:40Z")
Okay so they have hostages, but they’re also saying they won’t negotiate. What is the point of taking hostages then? These people, assuming they’re still alive, have been hostages for a long time now, what a nightmare ☹ ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/16 "2013-09-22T19:25:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Can someone explain why Al-Shabaab wanted to commit mass murder in Kenya? Well, it’s been 15 years since last time so it was about time to start - they’ve been bottling it up for too long. Luckily, Israeli special forces are there so I’m sure it will be all taken care of. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/17 "2013-09-22T19:26:53Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t know why some people are seemingly afraid to acknowledge that religion can be a basis for terrorism just as politics can, or that they seem unable to comprehend that for some people religion and politics are indistinguishable. For such a religiously inspired act, how do you explain relative drought of 15 years? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/18 "2013-09-22T20:24:34Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t know why some people are seemingly afraid to acknowledge that religion can be a basis for terrorism just as politics can, or that they seem unable to comprehend that for some people religion and politics are indistinguishable. Because if all of Somalia magically became Episcopalian, they’d still have the same problems. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/19 "2013-09-22T20:36:43Z")
Really? Has there been a rash of Episcopalian car bombs, mass killings of non-Episcopalians, and acid throwing on Episcopalian school girls that aren’t Episcopalian enough? Because, if so, I haven’t heard about it. While I am very certain _most_ Muslims are very much live and let live these days there is a lunatic fringe intent on starting armed conflicts with everyone else, including their fellow Muslims if they aren’t sufficiently Muslim by fanatic definitions. It’s rather like the US “pro-life” asshats that murder doctors who engage in abortions because, you know, murder justifies murder and their God told them to do it. Except the whackjobs among the Muslims aren’t just shooting individuals, they seem to like taking out groups. Yes, Somalia might well be a mess even without religion, there’s all sort of problems there, but without religion you wouldn’t have people shot because they didn’t know the mother of some other religion’s chief prophet was named “Amina”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413/20 "2013-09-22T22:21:19Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Because if all of Somalia magically became Episcopalian, they’d still have the same problems. They’d have most of the same problems, but they wouldn’t likely be exporting their problems. That attitude is unique to the Islamic world. “Our lives suck, so we’re going to take our domestic disputes abroad and make them everyone’s problem.” You didn’t see Congolese belligerents blowing up community centers in Buenos Aires. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-nairobi-shopping-mall/669413.md?page=2)