# Massacre in Tunisia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348 "2015-03-19T01:39:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/21 "2015-03-19T16:45:47Z")
Tunisia? Eh, who cares. (I suspect this is the reaction of 90% of the public to this event.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/22 "2015-03-19T16:46:38Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Deluded PC Liberals to the left. “Short of walking into a conversation, sandblasting the brick and installing track lighting, there is no surer way to announce one is from the 1980s than to mount an assault on ‘political correctness,’ the contemporary phrase for which is ‘not being a jackass.’” [—Tabatha Southey](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_correctness) ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/23 "2015-03-19T17:08:10Z")
If I understand the OP correctly (and maybe I don’t), we’re not sufficiently acknowledging the role of Islam in attacks like the one in Tunisia. OK, so what were these tourists doing, going to a country that’s 98% muslims? Sounds like they willfully exposed themselves to a clear and present danger, without a thought given to the possible consequences. So, fuck 'em. By the OP’s (apparent) logic. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/24 "2015-03-19T17:26:37Z")
Would it be any better if it were the act of the Irish Republican Army? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/25 "2015-03-19T17:30:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Would it be any better if it were the act of the Irish Republican Army? Only if they convert to Islam, which would mean no drinking, so . . . ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/26 "2015-03-19T17:44:07Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > It was the work of violent criminals. > > Do we really care what religion they think they are? Yes! So’s that we can paint all them mooslims with the same large brush! ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/27 "2015-03-19T22:51:13Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > It would probably blow OP’s mind to learn that the likely terrorists, Salafist-jihadists, often aren’t Islamists, but that in Tunisia Islamists are often the targets for violence because they constitute the center-right party. Though, to be fair, it’s probably pretty easy to blow OP’s mind. Since when are “Salafist-jihadists” not “Islamists”? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/28 "2015-03-19T23:20:57Z")
I expect it was most likely white gun fetishists who probably bought their semi-automatic machine guns through the gun show loop hole. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/29 "2015-03-19T23:35:28Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Since when are “Salafist-jihadists” not “Islamists”? They are two different things. Islamist means a person who thinks there should be a government that is governed by Islamic law. So, Tunisia’s political party Enhada are Islamist, even though they are both relatively moderate and committed to non-violence. There are Islamists of many different theological backgrounds. Salafist-jihadists are extreme Salafists theologically who believe in violent struggle against modernism and westernization. Some of them believe in establishing an Islamist government. Others are agnostic about governments, and believe the struggle is mainly a social/religious one. One can be a Islamist without being a Salafist (and the majority are not), and one can be a Salafists without being an Islamist (though most probably are). In Tunisia, the main Islamist party is sufficiently moderate as to be the target for extreme Salafists–not all of whom are fighting for state power. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/30 "2015-03-19T23:38:34Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Since when are “Salafist-jihadists” not “Islamists”? Yeah, not to mention that Islamist-Salafist-Jihadist has quite the cadence to it. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/31 "2015-03-20T01:22:04Z")
Whoever was responsible, what a horrible event. I know this event is not in the least bit about me, but as it happens I was due to be in Tunis in less than three weeks time. My family and I will be on the same ship that lost 12 of its passengers in the massacre (MSC Splendida). Apparently we will now be stopping off at Valletta in Malta instead. It would have been my first visit to the African continent, but I am happy that the cruise line is playing it safe - I can wait for another time to visit Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/32 "2015-03-20T15:17:17Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Yeah, not to mention that Islamist-Salafist-Jihadist has quite the cadence to it. Oh fuck off, Islamist’s-Salafist-Front-Jihadist! We’re the Islamist-Salafist-Jihadist-Front! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/33 "2015-03-20T15:24:06Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Oh fuck off, Islamist’s-Salafist-Front-Jihadist! We’re the Islamist-Salafist-Jihadist-Front! Splitter! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/34 "2015-03-20T15:27:28Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Oh fuck off, Islamist’s-Salafist-Front-Jihadist! We’re the Islamist-Salafist-Jihadist-Front! Splitter! ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/35 "2015-03-20T15:59:54Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Oh fuck off, Islamist’s-Salafist-Front-Jihadist! We’re the Islamist-Salafist-Jihadist-Front! It is obviously more correct to be a Salafia Takfiria Jihadia Frontist. all other things are not authentic. _(and it is a strange form of self centered primitive political tribalism that the reaction to this tragedy is about some american politics in what seems to be a grotesque strawman than it is about the tragedy that these takfiri scum have visited on the tunisians.)_ ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/36 "2015-03-20T16:09:06Z")
I blame Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/37 "2015-03-20T16:10:30Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > They are two different things. > > Islamist means a person who thinks there should be a government that is governed by Islamic law. So, Tunisia’s political party Enhada are Islamist, even though they are both relatively moderate and committed to non-violence. There are Islamists of many different theological backgrounds. > > Salafist-jihadists are extreme Salafists theologically who believe in violent struggle against modernism and westernization. Some of them believe in establishing an Islamist government. Others are agnostic about governments, and believe the struggle is mainly a social/religious one. > > One can be a Islamist without being a Salafist (and the majority are not), and one can be a Salafists without being an Islamist (though most probably are). In Tunisia, the main Islamist party is sufficiently moderate as to be the target for extreme Salafists–not all of whom are fighting for state power. This is not a bad presentation - it is quite true that most of the democratic islamists are not salafist in a strict sense. and the tension between the Islamist who are not salafist is not just a a theoretical one, for those who have paid attention to the Egyptian situation, it is worthy of noting that initially at least one important salafist organization with a horror of certain aspects of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Nour party, supported the military coup in Egypt. It is also true that most of the “jihadist salafist” are takfiri - they feel they can declare other Muslims as apostates and freely kill them. This is the DAESH ideology and the ideology of the most bloody terrorist organizations, like al Qaeda. It is not shared by most of the islamist movements and even of most of the salafiste movements. It would be better even for the west to call these organizations not Jihadis but Takfiri. It is more accurate and it also is better for the propaganda as the idea of the jihad, the greater or the lesser, can not be easily made negative - although the proper islamic law holds that the lesser jihad must be organized and lawful. But takfir, this is a hateful concept that is widely rejected and has no good basis in traditional law. Calling these people takfiri is a good thing, it highlights their hateful thinking and incorrect knowledge. And that they are pretending to be super muslim but they are engaging in bida3. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/38 "2015-03-20T16:22:22Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Ah. So it’s the mythical “PC Liberals” that are the problem? Darn tootin’! The Apple Liberals are much cooler. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/39 "2015-03-20T16:27:48Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > It is also true that most of the “jihadist salafist” are takfiri - they feel they can declare other Muslims as apostates and freely kill them. This is the DAESH ideology and the ideology of the most bloody terrorist organizations, like al Qaeda. It is not shared by most of the islamist movements and even of most of the salafiste movements. > > It would be better even for the west to call these organizations not Jihadis but Takfiri. > > It is more accurate and it also is better for the propaganda as the idea of the jihad, the greater or the lesser, can not be easily made negative - although the proper islamic law holds that the lesser jihad must be organized and lawful. But takfir, this is a hateful concept that is widely rejected and has no good basis in traditional law. Calling these people takfiri is a good thing, it highlights their hateful thinking and incorrect knowledge. And that they are pretending to be super muslim but they are engaging in bida3. Do you really have to make such an informative and thoughtful contribution to a Pit thread? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348/40 "2015-03-20T16:42:07Z")
I could say fucking takfiri? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massacre-in-tunisia/715348.md?page=3)