# Massive flooding in Texas; 20 children missing from a summer camp **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 4, 2025, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512 "2025-07-04T21:50:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/1 "2025-07-04T21:50:09Z")
Information, especially about the camp, which was for girls, is sketchy, mainly because of the difficulty in getting there and accessing information. At least 13 deaths in the flooded area have been confirmed, and helicopters have been removing people from trees and rooftops. Are there any Dopers from this area who know more and can comment further? > **[At least 20 girls are missing from a summer camp in Texas after catastrophic...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-flooding-summer-camp-children-missing-rcna216986)** > > Camp Mystic officials said major flooding of the Guadalupe River had washed away the highway and left the retreat without power, water or internet. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/2 "2025-07-04T22:53:16Z")
Enormous flash flood! Even his judgeship was caught off guard. > **[Kerr County judge withholds flooding casualty figures, updates on missing...](https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/kerr-county-judge-withholds-flooding-casualty-figures-updates-on-missing-children)** > > Kerr County Judge Rob Kelly refused to provide specific casualty numbers from catastrophic flooding that he described as "very devastating and deadly," drawing ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/3 "2025-07-04T23:07:02Z")
There was a huge flood in Kerr county in 1978. I worked for the Red Cross then and was involved with raising money for disaster relief. > **[Bandera Flooding - Paul Schaefer Collection (1978)](https://texasarchive.org/2020_02104?b=0&e=0)** > > KMOL-TV news footage of water rescues after Tropical Storm Amelia 27 people died. ---
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/4 "2025-07-04T23:12:06Z")
My uncle lives and works at an evacuation point in Kerrville. He said about a quarter of the county residents are showing up at his church right now. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/5 "2025-07-04T23:19:10Z")
> **[Federal cuts may impact how Texans get their weather news](https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2025-03-03/federal-cuts-may-affect-severe-weather-warnings-in-texas-how-texans-get-their-weather-news)** > > From hurricane season to ice storms, the way the state gets its alerts might change after scientists at NOAA and the National Weather Service were fired. [https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/politics/yall-itics/federal-government-budget-cuts-weather-noaa-texas-meteorologist/287-3722caf6-cd19-4899-8106-e5a27f363dde](https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/politics/yall-itics/federal-government-budget-cuts-weather-noaa-texas-meteorologist/287-3722caf6-cd19-4899-8106-e5a27f363dde) > **[Staff vacancies hit Texas weather offices as they brace for a busy hurricane...](https://www.texastribune.org/2025/06/09/texas-noaa-hurricane-season-forecast-nws-trump-cuts/)** > > Houston’s National Weather Service office has lost its head meteorologist amid a federal requirement to cut 10% of NOAA’s staff. [https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-weather/article/forecasts-upper-air-data-noaa-staffing-cuts-20281258.php](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-weather/article/forecasts-upper-air-data-noaa-staffing-cuts-20281258.php) No wonder no one saw the coming storm and 26 inches of rain. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/6 "2025-07-05T02:57:26Z")
There were also floods in 1987(?) I think- my wife was actually at one of the summer camps on the Guadalupe near Hunt then. It was pretty scary according to her, and a bus full of church campers from another camp was washed away and 10 people drowned. Basically the way the topography around there is, it’s hills and valleys with a fair amount of relief, so even if the actual altitudes aren’t very high, it’s ripe for flash flooding. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/7 "2025-07-05T03:14:03Z")
> **[24 dead in Texas floods and more than 20 children missing from a girls summer...](https://apnews.com/article/thunderstorms-texas-deaths-camp-mystic-trees-hail-e8a4c85c77f714c9a974e50f3cd1fca1)** > > Heavy rains have caused devastating flash floods in Texas Hill Country, killing at least 24 people and leaving many others missing. I was expecting the number of children missing to go down [I was expecting that many got separated in the confusion, but would later be counted]–but this hasn’t happened so far. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/8 "2025-07-05T05:09:50Z")
For assistance, or to help, or both? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/9 "2025-07-05T05:14:39Z")
It sounds many of the missing girls may be very young [6 to 9 years old]–as the cabins for those girls were closest to the river. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/10 "2025-07-05T05:15:35Z")
I saw a picture on another website of two girls who had been rescued, in the helicopter. They looked to be about 10 years old. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/11 "2025-07-05T11:16:39Z")
From the BBC: > Kerr County’s most senior official, Judge Rob Kelly, was also asked during a news conference as to why camps along the Guadalupe River had not been evacuated in advance. > > “We didn’t know this flood was coming. Rest assured, no-one knew this kind of flood was coming,” Kelly said. > > He then added: “we do not have a warning system” in the area. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/12 "2025-07-05T11:21:45Z")
Why is a judge in charge of a county? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/13 "2025-07-05T11:49:30Z")
It’s just the name of the position/office. They do not preside over a judicial Court, but the commissioners court, which is the governing body of the county. > **[County judge | Texas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_judge#Texas)** > > In Texas, the County Judge is essentially the chief executive officer in the county. County Judges preside over the county's commissioners court, which is the county's governing body; they do not preside over a judicial court. It is similar to the position of county executive in other US states. > In Texas, the County Courts have original jurisdiction established under sections 15 to 17 of Article V of the State Constitution. Each of Texas's 254 counties has a single County Court, which shall be a... ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/14 "2025-07-05T12:40:45Z")
So now the question is, if you’re in an area that’s prone to flooding and has had several major floods in the past, why don’t you have a warning system? ---
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/15 "2025-07-05T13:48:39Z")
The question of people’s roles at evacuation centers is a good one. My uncle said people were going to his and two other churches with the token emergency supplies they had with them. It was very unorganized yesterday afternoon because there wasn’t too much formal assistance yet. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/16 "2025-07-05T14:17:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So now the question is, if you’re in an area that’s prone to flooding and has had several major floods in the past, why don’t you have a warning system? Because Jesus and freedom! ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/17 "2025-07-05T14:45:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > if you’re in an area that’s prone to flooding and has had several major floods in the past, why don’t you have a warning system? According to reports, this was the second-worst flood in history, and the river rose an astounding 26 feet in just 45 minutes. Not sure any advance-warning system would have been adequate in this situation. Another [report](https://www.gbra.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/StayingSafe.pdf) that I found noted that, prior to this, there were 8 major flood events in the past 90 years, and none since 1997. I don’t know if that would classify as ‘prone to flooding’, but perhaps it is. I don’t mean to minimize the tragedy, but I’m not sure that there’s any finger-pointing that should be done here. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/18 "2025-07-05T15:01:13Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > According to reports, this was the second-worst flood in history, and the river rose an astounding 26 feet in just 45 minutes. Not sure any advance-warning system would have been adequate in this situation. But when the river starts to rise isn’t when the first warning would come. That water came from somewhere. If nothing else, you can forecast “Heavy rains in the \_\_\_ area; floods likely”. And yeah, I’d say that nearly one “major flood event” per decade counts as “prone to flooding”. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/19 "2025-07-05T15:19:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But when the river starts to rise isn’t when the first warning would come. That water came from somewhere. If nothing else, you can forecast “Heavy rains in the \_\_\_ area; floods likely”. Well, there were watches/warnings issued. Obviously not adequate, but officials were aware of the possibility. Again, this was unprecedented, and I’m sure there is a lot of second-guessing going on right now. [Link](https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2025/07/05/kerr-county-officials-to-give-update-on-guadalupe-river-flooding-that-killed-at-least-25-people/) > The flash flood watch was issued for Kerr County at 1:45 p.m. Thursday. The first flood warning was issued at 1 a.m. Friday. > > In a Friday news conference, Patrick said Jay Hall, an assistant chief with the Texas Department of Emergency Management, “personally contacted the judges and the mayors in that area and notified them all of potential flooding.” > > “It is up to the local counties and mayors under the law to evacuate if they feel a need, but that information was passed along,” he added. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/20 "2025-07-05T15:23:41Z")
OK, so the county had warning, and then the county did not pass along that warning. That makes it even worse. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512.md?page=2)