# Massive flooding in Texas; 20 children missing from a summer camp **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 4, 2025, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512 "2025-07-04T21:50:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/81 "2025-07-07T11:25:52Z")
Warnings require that people _get_ them, _listen_ to them, and _act appropriately._ Skip any one of those three and disaster can ensue. I dunno - maybe the church camp was relying on God to protect them? As I said - there were other camps along the Guadalupe River that flooded. While there was some loss of life, and I don’t want to minimize the tragedy of losing those people, all of those other camps collectively don’t seem to have lost as many people as that one camp Mystic did. So you have to ask why Mystic had so much greater loss of life. It’s possible that being at a point where more than one river converged increased their risk. On the other hand, they could have avoided some of that risk by not building sleep quarters on the flood plain of a river with a history of flooding. Sure, those buildings were above a _typical_ flood line, but the sleeping cabins should have been on the highest ground available. Which is hindsight. Unfortunately, any investigation or analysis may be more looking for a scapegoat than actually attempting to learn something from this disaster with an eye to preventing future disasters. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/82 "2025-07-07T11:44:13Z")
[I guess buying child-sized coffins in bulk is cheaper.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/texas-officials-face-scrutiny-over-lack-of-evacuation-orders-before-deadly-flooding) _Kelly said the county considered a flood warning system along the river that would have functioned like a tornado warning siren about six or seven years ago, before he was elected, but that the idea never got off the ground because of the expense._ _“We’ve looked into it before … The public reeled at the cost,” Kelly said._ ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/83 "2025-07-07T11:52:51Z")
Right. Because taxes are always bad. 🙄 That’s how you pay for public infrastructure like that. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/84 "2025-07-07T12:59:53Z")
Here is another camp which was successful in evacuating: > **[Quick action by one Texas summer camp leads to timely evacuations ahead of...](https://apnews.com/article/texas-floods-summer-camp-evacuation-a1cbf5cfa768b0869e5e299b8f7dfccf)** > > One local summer camp in the path of the disastrous flooding in central Texas was able to avoid any loss of life by closely monitoring weather reports. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/85 "2025-07-07T13:21:47Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > In today’s press conference, Governor Abbott said that the people in the area would likely know the how best to respond to a flood. Why would he think that? The people who run these camps are experts in childcare and/or theology. They’re not experts in hydrology or flood control. > > This is among the most three-dimensional topography in Texas. Meaning it has a lot of high ground? I would expect that the camp staffs would know where the high ground was, and what trails to get there. If you get to the high ground, you might be temporarily stranded by a flood, but you won’t be killed. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/86 "2025-07-07T14:21:18Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The camp is over 700 acres. All they had to do was to put the places where the girls slept on high ground–instead of next to the river. I was just thinking of this in the context of a campground my company rents out in that area for a few days every October (but not this coming October due to budget cuts). In the summer, it is indeed a Girl Scout camp. Camp Waldemar to be exact. Not the one being reported as the site of the flooding (possibly just because no one has died there?) and that is indeed how it’s arranged: activities buildings down low, cabins on the high ground (as I can painfully remember from having to go up so many steep steps each day). Unfortunately, it sounds like Camp Mystic was not similarly arranged even though, from a quick look at the topography, that seems to have been an option (there look to be two natural ridges that protrude into the property, but they look to be undeveloped). ETA: This article indicates that although the camp I’ve stayed at (Waldemar) was affected by the flooding, everyone was safe and accounted for (and my speculation is simply that the fact its cabins are on high ground might well have made the difference). [https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/guadalupe-river-flood-camp-waldemar-reunions-20604137.php](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/guadalupe-river-flood-camp-waldemar-reunions-20604137.php) ---
**Author:** ![DaveUnknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@DaveUnknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveUnknown)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/87 "2025-07-07T16:03:38Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Here is another camp which was successful in evacuating: Thank you. I dont want to take the NWS as the scapegoat. I still feel like there was some ignorance and ball-dropping by the camp adults. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/88 "2025-07-07T16:40:58Z")
I think a bunch of factors contributed to this disaster. I wonder if folks in that area will learn anything from this to either prevent or mitigate the next flood or not. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/89 "2025-07-07T16:46:26Z")
See the post above yours. It seems like some folks did learn something from past experience. I wonder if the camp director who died wasn’t fortunate. He doesn’t have to face any responsibility for this. Kind of like a Captain going down with his ship. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/90 "2025-07-07T17:07:44Z")
Kerr County 76% for Trump, 73% for Cruz. Those folk are signaling for the type of government and level of services/regulation they want. Too bad their kids have to pay such a high price. Oh yeah - the county is nearly 89% white, so the photos of campers don’t seem terribly disproportionate. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/91 "2025-07-07T18:35:35Z")
This is Mo-Ranch, where the US national Camino pilgrims groups meets for some of its annual gatherings, including, in theory, in 2026. Members got the word that everyone was safe yesterday, which was good news. I don’t remember how much elevation there is between the Guadalupe and the main buildings, but I’m sure there’s plenty of damage by the river (outbuildings, labyrinth, bridges, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/92 "2025-07-07T19:08:14Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Unfortunately, it sounds like Camp Mystic was not similarly arranged even though, from a quick look at the topography, that seems to have been an option (there look to be two natural ridges that protrude into the property, but they look to be undeveloped). Here’s a Google Earth image of the Topography: > **[Camp Mystic (and Texas) failed before the first drop of rain fell](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2025/7/7/2332179/-Camp-Mystic-and-Texas-failed-before-the-first-drop-of-rain-fell?utm_campaign=trending)** > > Most of this diary is rehashing known knowns, but I wanted to share a Google Earth image of the Camp Mystic location. This is something I haven’t seen in any media. While not understating the errors that happened ignoring flood warnings, the... > [@](#): > > While not understating the errors that happened ignoring flood warnings, the fundamental problem is the location of Camp Mystic. When you ponder this image, you can see exactly why the flood was so bad. There is a reason this camp has flooded before- it is sitting on a flat floodplain made of silt deposited by prior floods, in the bottom of a deep river valley. There shouldn’t be any permanent structures in this location. Most blue states would designate that a zone where buildings would not be permitted. Yes, the camp was built in the 20s. Even then, common sense should have given pause. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/93 "2025-07-07T19:14:46Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Kerr County 76% for Trump, 73% for Cruz. Those folk are signaling for the type of government and level of services/regulation they want. Too bad their kids have to pay such a high price. Just because kids were attending summer camp in Kerr County doesn’t mean they lived there. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/94 "2025-07-07T19:17:51Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Obviously radio and TV stations were broadcasting warnings. But I very much doubt that many people were listening to the radio or watching TV in the early morning hours when the situation got really bad. Around me the police or state troopers warn people if there is flooding possible. Or if fires are coming. The Russian River floods all the time. Were the local police unaware of the danger? Or were they understaffed also? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/95 "2025-07-07T19:18:48Z")
Camp Mystic didn’t sound like one of those “YOU NEED JESUS!” camps. It sounded more like the type where it was nondenominational, and they would say grace before meals and have chapel every day. Plus, a fundie camp wouldn’t be called “Mystic” either. It may well have been attended by the kind of people who, back in the day, went to church primarily to see and be seen. IDK. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/96 "2025-07-07T19:25:30Z")
There is this snippet that may address the racial distribution: > Camp Mystic is a nondenominational Christian institution that has **hosted the children of some of Texas’s political elite over its 99-year history.** Former first lady Laura Bush was a camp counselor there, and past camp attendees included the daughters of former US president Lyndon B Johnson and the former Texas governor John Connally. > **[Texas’s Camp Mystic confirms 27 children and counsellors died in floods](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/07/texas-floods-summer-camp-death-toll-victims)** > > Camp says the search continues for missing people while life-threatening flooding still remains a threat ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/97 "2025-07-07T19:30:10Z")
According to a Guardian article, the NWS issued this warning on Saturday: > On Saturday flash flood warnings issued for parts of central Texas. “This is a PARTICULARLY DANGEROUS SITUATION,” the National Weather Service (NWS) warned in a [bulletin](https://www.weather.gov/wwamap/wwatxtget.php?cwa=sjt&wwa=all). “SEEK HIGHER GROUND NOW!” > **[Texas continues grim flood recovery with at least 50 killed, including 15...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/05/texas-flood-recovery-dozens-dead-children-missing)** > > Some two dozen girls still unaccounted for after summer camps swept away as Guadalupe River rises 26ft in 45 minutes Article doesn’t say the time of the warning. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/98 "2025-07-07T20:03:47Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > has **hosted the children of some of Texas’s political elite over its 99-year history.** Texas’ political elite doesn’t care that they send their own kids to a camp with inadequate emergency preparation, despite a known history of flooding. Explains a lot. Yeah - let’s see the feds pour millions into this county that was too cheap to install their own warning system. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/99 "2025-07-07T20:45:38Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Article doesn’t say the time of the warning. An article which @LSLGuy just posted in [a thread in the Pit](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-cites-for-things-that-would-take-you-2-second-to-look-up-is-lazy/1020281/212) contains this (emphasis mine): > [@](#): > > NWS staff both nationally and at the local field office between San Antonio and Austin performed admirably, giving all the heads up you’d expect for a hyper-local event like this. Flood Watches were hoisted over 12 hours in advance of the start of the flooding and flash flood warnings were issued hours before the worst hit. The “considerable” tag the NWS office added to these early warnings also would’ve triggered Wireless Emergency Alerts to cell phones in the area (for those able to receive them). **The early warnings were followed up with more extreme flood alerts, including a Flash Flood Emergency for parts of Kerr County, including Hunt, at 4:03 AM CT.** That last Emergency warning is likely the one which the Guardian article quoted. Also, as far as staffing and staff cuts, the same article notes: > [@](#): > > Though many [local NWS field offices are short-staffed](https://michaelrlowry.substack.com/p/noaa-eyes-another-active-hurricane) from DOGE-directed cuts and compelled early resignations, the local field office in New Braunfels implemented what they call “surge staffing” – a standard NWS protocol when severe weather is anticipated – leading up to the event. This means the office actually had more staff working the event than it would’ve on more typical weather days, upping its on-duty staff from two to five ahead of the storms, [according to the Associated Press](https://apnews.com/article/texas-floods-hill-country-weather-warnings-238d4325bb58f0b410015f74684738b6). > **[Trying to Make Sense of the Unspeakable Texas Tragedy](https://michaelrlowry.substack.com/p/trying-to-make-sense-of-the-unspeakable)** > > Catastrophic flooding in the Texas Hill Country over the holiday weekend is one of the deadliest in modern memory. How did it happen? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2025, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512/100 "2025-07-07T20:53:15Z")
Also, it’s pretty rocky as well, without a lot of soil to absorb water. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Just because kids were attending summer camp in Kerr County doesn’t mean they lived there. Exactly. The vast, vast majority were probably suburban kids from the Houston, DFW and San Antonio/Austin areas. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > In the summer, it is indeed a Girl Scout camp. Camp Waldemar to be exact. Oh… no, not Girl Scouts. Camp Waldemar is one of the old-timey wealthy girl camps along with Camp Mystic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-flooding-in-texas-20-children-missing-from-a-summer-camp/1020512.md?page=6)