# Massive measles outbreak - thank you, Andrew Fucking Wakefield **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119 "2013-04-19T10:56:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/441 "2013-05-20T06:17:40Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Just shut the fuck already **Curlcoat**. This board is devoted to fighting ignorance while you are clearly devoted to spreading it. How many times do people have to answer your stupid questions before you finally understand the answers? > > This is sort of why **Kolga** and I wrote our book: because we were tired of spending hours answering the same questions and making the same point over and over again. And maybe some day you will realize that writing a book neither makes you an expert, nor gives you a license to be a complete asshole to people who don’t know as much on the one subject. As for the rest of your post, of course it has close to zero to do with anything I’ve said, which is your whole problem right there. I use one or two keywords and you are off on your canned rant; it might make you feel all important but it does zero to help someone to understand and goes a long way to making them wonder if the woo people are saner. Don’t think I don’t notice that you ignored almost everything I said and went off on tangents that had zero to do with the subject. Do you really think calling people names and telling them they are stupid is the way to get them to come around to your point of view? Jesus, I get people asking idiotic questions about dogs, training or PETA/HSUS every day and I have never once called any of them “You arrogant nitwit. You lazy birdbrain. You deliberately dim idiot. You numskull. You ignorant, blathering, useless, smug, dolt. You toadheaded, daft, vacuous, borish, gullible, sophmoric, deliberately obtuse imbecile. YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE.” It is amazing what a complete and total asshole you have been from the very beginning, yet you expect that I should take your word that everything that falls out of your mouth is gospel truth set in granite. The fact you cannot even stay on point makes me wonder how much you really know, and how much is just parroting of people who really do know what they are talking about. I guess my problem is I’ve been too polite, so forget that shit. The fact is, simply because you managed to get a book published doesn’t make you an all powerful expert; hell, I’m sure the woo factories have books out too. I’ve found and posted cites that do not agree with some of the things you claim as Truth, yet instead of addressing any of that as a self confident adult would, you just throw insults around like a grade school kid on the playground. Does it ever occur to you if you weren’t such a flaming bitch that maybe I might have a clearer idea if any research is happening; does it ever occur to you that if you weren’t such a paranoid twit you wouldn’t assume that not knowing something might result in questions you regard as sophomoric? (You spelled that word wrong BTW - should I assume you fail at spelling or at understanding what spell check is? Or - gasp! - maybe you just made a mistake there. What a concept.) Because of your smug deliberately obtuse attitude, if I had any children to vaccinate, I would avoid you and your book like the plague. No one wants to be treated to your bullshit just because they dared to ask a question. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/442 "2013-05-20T06:24:57Z")
_headdesk_ ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/443 "2013-05-20T07:03:34Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > Local press is saying some US states already mandate (or rather, encourage by banning you from school or pre-school without it) immunisation, which surprises me. Mississippi, West Virginia and Washington, apparently. Mississippi and West Virginia only allow medical exemptions and they aren’t that easy to get. Washington has recently passed a law, as did California, requiring parents who want a ‘personal belief’ exemption for their kids for school to have a signature from a medical health practitioner, saying that the parents have been informed about the risks and benefits of vaccination. What it basically does is give a doctor a chance to talk to them about it, and it helps to prevent those exemptions that happen just because the parent doesn’t take the time to get the child in to the doctor. Part of the point is that it shouldn’t be easier to exempt the child than it is to have them vaccinated. In Washington it seems to be improving vaccination rates. Otherwise, 48 states allow a religious exemption, some more strict than others, and some 20 allow a personal belief or philosophical exemption, essentially the “I don’t like vaccines and they scare me” exemption. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/444 "2013-05-20T11:01:31Z")
Well, that was a meltdown. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/445 "2013-05-20T12:03:24Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Well, that was a meltdown. It was all right. I’ve seen meltier. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/446 "2013-05-20T13:08:39Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > And maybe some day you will realize that writing a book neither makes you an expert, nor gives you a license to be a complete asshole to people who don’t know as much on the one subject… Actually, yes. Learning enough to write a book that’s gotten good reviews from scientists & doctors _does_ make you an expert. A well-educated, thoughtful, literate layperson rather than a multi-degreed professional–but still an expert. Take her meltdown _personally_. It was not a result of her writing the book, but of attempting to treat you as a thinking human being. She finally realized the truth most of us discovered long ago. Now we just point, laugh & hold you in contempt. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/447 "2013-05-20T13:11:44Z")
People often forget this aspect of Pitiquette: if you are insufficiently nice to someone, it automatically gives them the right to be a flaming moron. We commonly see evidence of this in various Internet forums. A poster will declare that they were willing to listen to reason, but _someone_ was mean to them, so now it’s woo all the way. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/448 "2013-05-20T13:24:33Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > And maybe some day you will realize that writing a book neither makes you an expert, nor gives you a license to be a complete asshole to people who don’t know as much on the one subject. So you are admitting that you don’t know much of the subject? I have to admire your plucky spirit to solider on with ignorance in the face of facts. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/449 "2013-05-20T13:52:50Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > People often forget this aspect of Pitiquette: if you are insufficiently nice to someone, it automatically gives them the right to be a flaming moron. It’s hilarious, too. It’s like playing chess with someone and they take their own queen. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/450 "2013-05-20T14:03:15Z")
In a fact-based debate, polite ignorance does not trump obnoxious knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/451 "2013-05-20T14:22:34Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Do you really think calling people names and telling them they are stupid is the way to get them to come around to your point of view? Works for Cecil. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/452 "2013-05-20T14:33:09Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > And maybe some day you will realize that writing a book neither makes you an expert, Actually, it kinda does. Assuming you do proper research, fact-checking and other details. I don’t think writing a book would turn LavenderBlue into a pipette dispensing vaccine researcher but I’d wager she forgot more about vaccines that you will ever know. > [@](#): > > nor gives you a license to be a complete asshole to people who don’t know as much on the one subject. Not knowing much on a subject is one thing, being willfully ignorant like you are is a completely different matter. > [@](#): > > As for the rest of your post, of course it has close to zero to do with anything I’ve said, which is your whole problem right there. I use one or two keywords and you are off on your canned rant; it might make you feel all important but it does zero to help someone to understand and goes a long way to making them wonder if the woo people are saner. Don’t think I don’t notice that you ignored almost everything I said and went off on tangents that had zero to do with the subject. Oh please, your use of anti-vaxx memes and themes is well documented in this thread. When you get answers you fail to acknowledge them. > [@](#): > > Do you really think calling people names and telling them they are stupid is the way to get them to come around to your point of view? IN your case, no. But as I have noted we don’t expect to convert the zealot. We hope to keep someone from following the zealot to the kool-aid container. > [@](#): > > Jesus, I get people asking idiotic questions about dogs, training or PETA/HSUS every day and I have never once called any of them “You arrogant nitwit. You lazy birdbrain. You deliberately dim idiot. You numskull. You ignorant, blathering, useless, smug, dolt. You toadheaded, daft, vacuous, borish, gullible, sophmoric, deliberately obtuse imbecile. YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE.” It is amazing what a complete and total asshole you have been from the very beginning, yet you expect that I should take your word that everything that falls out of your mouth is gospel truth set in granite. What you asked was not idiotic questions. What you brought up were old, tired anti-vaxxer memes. > [@](#): > > The fact you cannot even stay on point makes me wonder how much you really know, and how much is just parroting of people who really do know what they are talking about. Around here I doubt anyone gives a shit about what you wonder. > [@](#): > > I guess my problem is I’ve been too polite, No. > [@](#): > > so forget that shit. The fact is, simply because you managed to get a book published doesn’t make you an all powerful expert; Getting the book published? No. Get the information in the book correct? Yeah, that kinda does. > [@](#): > > hell, I’m sure the woo factories have books out too. Enjoy your Mandy’s Marvelous Measles then. > [@](#): > > I’ve found and posted cites that do not agree with some of the things you claim as Truth, Not from any reputable sites you haven’t. > [@](#): > > yet instead of addressing any of that as a self confident adult would, you just throw insults around like a grade school kid on the playground. All of you points were addressed, and people only got angry when you kept hitting the fringe reset button. > [@](#): > > Does it ever occur to you if you weren’t such a flaming bitch that maybe I might have a clearer idea if any research is happening; does it ever occur to you that if you weren’t such a paranoid twit you wouldn’t assume that not knowing something might result in questions you regard as sophomoric? Does it ever occur to you that you should pay attention to the sources people are giving you rather than having a mad-on on LB? > [@](#): > > (You spelled that word wrong BTW - should I assume you fail at spelling or at understanding what spell check is? Or - gasp! - maybe you just made a mistake there. What a concept.) > > Because of your smug deliberately obtuse attitude, if I had any children to vaccinate, I would avoid you and your book like the plague. No one wants to be treated to your bullshit just because they dared to ask a question. That is not what happened. You did a lot worse than just ‘dare to ask a question’. You were obtuse, full of fringe resets, ignored the loads of information given to you, what few points you tried to make. Even worse you vomited out fear-mongering crap like how awful it was for kids to have ‘so many shots’. That was pure, unadulterated anti-vaxx crap. It sure as fuck-o was not ‘dared to ask a question’. Stop trying to pretend you are the innocent fawn, you are full of shit and fear-mongering and you know it. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/453 "2013-05-20T20:50:03Z")
As if anyone on this board needed any more proof that **curlcoat** is a vile flaming piece of shit, this thread pretty much seals the deal. She’s offered every anti-vaccine canard along with a dollop of tone trolling, all while pretending to be JAQing off, had every one of her lies and pieces of misinformation corrected, had every disingenuous “question” answered, and yet continues to spew the same old vomit as every other lying anti-vaxxer. **LavenderBlue** and I encounter this same old pathetic tactic constantly, and are in agreement that people like this are direct threats to public health. They should be held legally responsible for deaths and diseases that they encourage by continuing their fear and smear campaigns against the greatest medical invention of the 20th century. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/454 "2013-05-20T21:10:46Z")
**curlcoat** pulls the same sort of stunt in most of the threads she contributes to. She’s **just asking questions** yannow, no need to jump her for **just asking questions**. 😃 It’s a particularly vile sort of debating technique, because even though the questions are answered (at least to the satisfaction of 99% of readers), her wish to keep the thread centred on herself means the rest of the contributors either drop off the page or end up :: headdesking :: She’s just an attention whore…and a dumb one at that. Disengage the stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/455 "2013-05-20T21:26:35Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > **curlcoat** pulls the same sort of stunt in most of the threads she contributes to. She’s **just asking questions** yannow, no need to jump her for **just asking questions**. 😃 > > It’s a particularly vile sort of debating technique, because even though the questions are answered (at least to the satisfaction of 99% of readers), her wish to keep the thread centred on herself means the rest of the contributors either drop off the page or end up :: headdesking :: > > She’s just an attention whore…and a dumb one at that. Disengage the stupid. Oh, I know. She’s worthless in every thread in which she ever participates, managing to turn every thread into the Curlcoat Show (just like this one). To return to the theme of the OP, **curlcoat** , like Andrew Fucking Wakefield, participates in spreading misinformation that directly endangers lives. Luckily, she’s a friendless irrational failure and has not had a fraudulent study published. Unluckily, she and her ilk will suck Wakefield’s dick forever because of their inability/refusal to understand science. Relevant study: [Low science knowledge linked to vaccine refusal](http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/News/Media-office/Press-releases/2013/WTP052617.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/456 "2013-05-20T21:35:08Z")
What a denigration to the noble art of dick sucking. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/457 "2013-05-21T00:35:16Z")
I think this curlcoat quote is somewhat relevant here: > [@Debt ceiling: why are the pubbies pissed?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-ceiling-why-are-the-pubbies-pissed/642809/299): > > It’s pretty obvious that very little here would fix any “bad facts” I might have. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/458 "2013-05-21T04:16:06Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > In a fact-based debate, polite ignorance does not trump obnoxious knowledge. For that matter neither does obnoxious ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/459 "2013-05-21T06:30:09Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Actually, yes. Learning enough to write a book that’s gotten good reviews from scientists & doctors _does_ make you an expert. A well-educated, thoughtful, literate layperson rather than a multi-degreed professional–but still an expert. Or, it could simply be a collection or rehash of research done by others. Based on what I’ve read here, it seems like it was that rather than a book reporting one’s own research and experience. I am considered an expert in my field and could easily write books that would get good reviews. However, the difference is that I know I don’t know everything, and I don’t treat folks who don’t know much like shit. > [@](#): > > Take her meltdown _personally_. It was not a result of her writing the book, but of attempting to treat you as a thinking human being. She finally realized the truth most of us discovered long ago. Now we just point, laugh & hold you in contempt. I don’t take ignorant meltdowns personally. Hell, I don’t take anything strangers on the internet personally. Cite for any time at all when she treated me has a human, much less a thinking one? She’s never done it. I was patient with her paranoid leaps of illogic, her purposeful tangents, her completely ignoring what I’ve actually said, then she just decides to throw out insults. Shrug. People confident in their knowledge don’t do that. > [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > So you are admitting that you don’t know much of the subject? I have to admire your plucky spirit to solider on with ignorance in the face of facts. :rolleyes: That was my original mistake - admitting I didn’t know something and daring to ask a question/make an observation, that I didn’t know enough would make some folks jump to the stupid conclusion that I am anti-vax. The lack of ability to not take things personally and to not hold grudges on a board supposedly dedicated to fighting ignorance is sad. > [@Eutychus](#): > > Works for Cecil. Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/460 "2013-05-21T07:00:13Z")
Nobody cares, jackass. You’re not “just asking questions.” You’re JAQing off. Your “questions” have been answered - you’ve rejected the answers. Now go crawl back in your hole and enjoy your napkin sandwiches. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=24)