# Massive measles outbreak - thank you, Andrew Fucking Wakefield **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119 "2013-04-19T10:56:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/641 "2013-06-05T14:27:00Z")
And you will always have antibodies circulating in your body. That is what titers measure (it is also indirectly what the TB skin test we get measures). Titers measure the amounts of antibodies against a certain antigen. When some people talk about checking the titers instead of vaccinating, they’re saying that if the person (or animal) has a good amount of antibody, then the vaccines are not needed. Which seems safe, right? Except that as I said above, vaccines can stimulate more than just antibody production (depending on the type of vaccine), and in some diseases, the cellular part (the memory cells, the fighting cells) is more important than how much antibody is produced. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/642 "2013-06-05T19:24:01Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I see three possibilities. > > 1. Your parents were the type that didn’t worry about it. > > 2. Your parents were the type that worried about it, but did what they could to shield you from the worry > > 3. Your parents worried about it, but you weren’t aware enough to pick up on it. > If you only ever had mild cases, its quite possible that they didn’t worry too much about it. > > When I was growing up, my parents only had major medical - which means you had to be pretty darn sick to get to the doctor. Something like chicken pox, which there was no medicine for, and which the treatment was “aspirin, lots of liquids, rest, oatmeal baths and calamine lotion” (this was in the days when kids got aspirin) wouldn’t warrant a trip to the doctor unless the fever spiked enough that hospitalization was needed or an infection occurred. That doesn’t mean that they weren’t worried - my mother had a cousin die of some “minor” childhood disease like chicken pox and my grandfather had lifelong problems from his - but it wasn’t like there was anything anyone could do, and worrying us about them was certainly not going to help. I have seen the argument on anti-vaccine forums (more than once) that the Brady Bunch is evidence that no one worried about the measles (no, I’m not kidding). Brady kids got sick, they all went to bed for a few days, the biggest worry was which doctor to use, and all was well. As you said, there wasn’t much you could do…it was a part of life for generations and people dealt with it without going over the edge. And I’m sure it’s true that people worried less about measles & chicken pox than they did about polio, because the risk of serious effects was lower, but that doesn’t mean you don’t want to eliminate a risk, even if it’s not a huge one. People drove around with babies in their laps back then, too, but it’s a lot smarter to use a car seat. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/643 "2013-06-06T01:49:23Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Uhm, the reason you mentioned there is the same thing the other person explained. They don’t get parvo because the mother has antibodies against it, and can pass it. **WhyNot** said that babies can get, for example, measles even when breastfeeding from a vaccinated mother because the baby will develop a case of the disease before the mother’s antibodies can prevent it. This doesn’t seem to jive with vaccinated dogs and puppies. > [@](#): > > I think I figured out something I forgot earlier. Humans, unlike most other mammals, do receive the bulk of their maternal immunity via their placenta. Most other animals have other types (multiple types) of placenta that only allow a lesser transfer (if at all) of antibodies. Hence, for most mammals, it is breastmilk that provides the maternal immunity. But again, not even that lasts throughout nursing. In some species, the ability to absorb the antibodies needed is greatest in the first few hours after birth, and shortly declines in a couple of days. In others, the ability to pass the antibodies and absorb them can last a bit more. But by the time the animal is weaned, it most certainly stopped getting maternal immunity a while back. Ah. But the maternal immunity that humans receive doesn’t last at all, so they need to vaccinate the babies right off? Or do they only vaccinate against those things that are dependent on cell-mediated immunity? Are there diseases like that we vaccinate dogs for? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/644 "2013-06-06T02:30:54Z")
Apparently I need to go review my microbiology notes, so I guess take what I posted with a grain of salt. I thought I had a handle on it, but perhaps not. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/645 "2013-06-06T03:26:30Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > So no, got measles or got vaccinated, neither the pathogen nor the disease \*fighting \*antibody is found in the body of the mother until/unless she’s again exposed to measles while breastfeeding. OK, so way different than dogs. Maybe because of some of the things **KarlGrenze** said were different. > [@](#): > > I don’t even know what I don’t know about dogs’ immune systems and vaccines, so I can’t answer that. Except to say that, no, there’s no good reason to assume that all of this works the same in all mammals. Digestion doesn’t work the same in cows and people, why should immunity? Well, more of the pieces in dogs and human are the same … 🆒 > [@](#): > > It’s very likely that if you brought it up to your doctor, she’d either order you titers to see if you’re immune already or give you the vaccine. If herd immunity was really as important as has been stated in here, seems to me that at least one of my doctors would be asking me if I had any of the vaccines that have come along since 1963 or so (I don’t remember exactly how old I as when I got my shots). Particularly here in S Cal since we have so many folks fresh from Mexico and further south, who have never had any sort of vaccinations. However, until I read about it in here, I wasn’t even aware there was a vaccine for measles, or any of the others beyond the ones I got 50 or so years ago. > [@](#): > > If your doctor doesn’t, the problem is with your doctor; the tools and knowledge are available, and according the CDC guidelines, you \*should \*be checked if you are 55 years old. But your doctor is probably assuming you’re already immune, having gotten to your age living in the US. Well, I don’t have a doctor, I have four. Granted three are specialists but they ask other non-specialty questions … Why are all adults born before 1957 considered immune to measles and mumps? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/646 "2013-06-06T03:33:48Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Ah. But the maternal immunity that humans receive doesn’t last at all, so they need to vaccinate the babies right off? Or do they only vaccinate against those things that are dependent on cell-mediated immunity? Are there diseases like that we vaccinate dogs for? No, the passive immunity can be effective for a few weeks, but not much. Again, if you read what was posted earlier. The one vaccine that CDC recommends right away (Hep B), is one that the baby can get during birth. Meaning even before he/she may have had a change of even ingesting colostrum and getting the antibodies. That is, of course, if the mom is even herself vaccinated and producing decent antibodies. Again, some vaccines don’t produce really long lasting antibody titers or create good cellular immunity. Vaccination boosts the immune system. Some parts and some antigens only activate some components of the immune system. Which vaccines or antigens or diseases are beyond my scope. I do know that vaccine development is an ongoing area of research. I do know that the non-adjuvant vaccines that are offered for some diseases in animals, for example, have shown not to produce as strong and as long lasting an immune response as the adjuvant vaccines. Hence those are recommended for yearly shots instead of the longer time periods. I also know that some vaccines are simply not the greatest (but still better for the population overall than not being vaccinated). ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/647 "2013-06-07T05:32:00Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > No, the passive immunity can be effective for a few weeks, but not much. > > Again, if you read what was posted earlier. The one vaccine that CDC recommends right away (Hep B), is one that the baby can get during birth. There’s no way I’d have time to read everything in this thread - I just look at the ones responding to me. Vaccinated _during birth??_ Yuk. Anyway, when I said right off, I didn’t mean at birth, I meant prior to 12 months, when they would still be breastfeeding (if they were at all). One site says they get over 20 (some are boosters). ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/648 "2013-06-07T07:24:53Z")
God almighty, I come back from two weeks’ worth of travel, and **curlcoat** is still JAQing off. And people are still feeding her Narcissistic Personality Disorder. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/649 "2013-06-07T08:45:43Z")
Um, that means if they’re not answering to you directly you’re not reading it? Yet many of those answers have the answers to the questions you keep saying. Hey, that explains it! And no, I meant right after birth. Hep B vaccine, per the CDC webpage (that was linked several times). And read the thread. It was mentioned several times prior to your last reply that breastfeeding does not equal an endless transfer of protective antibodies from mom to offspring. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/650 "2013-06-07T14:19:26Z")
I was reading last night that there are now celebrities endorsing vaccination and encouraging people to get their children vaccinated. (Amanda Peet, Jennifer Garner, Jennifer Lopez, Keri Russell, Kristi Yamaguchi, Salma Hayek, and Sarah Michelle Gellar are some of the celebrities advocating vaccinations.) In an ideal world, nobody would be making medical decisions based on what some movie star thinks. But if people are dumb enough to seek advice like this from celebrities, at least there are some celebrities who are offering good advice. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/651 "2013-06-07T14:20:15Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > It was mentioned several times prior to your last reply that breastfeeding does not equal an endless transfer of protective antibodies from mom to offspring. Well duh! Otherwise, we’d all be breastfeeding until we were school aged. Or was I the only one who missed out? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/652 "2013-06-07T14:58:44Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > There’s no way I’d have time to read everything in this thread - I just look at the ones responding to me. > > Vaccinated _during birth??_ Yuk. Anyway, when I said right off, I didn’t mean at birth, I meant prior to 12 months, when they would still be breastfeeding (if they were at all). One site says they get over 20 (some are boosters). Well, shortly thereafter. There are a few things babies can get during delivery. Mothers are tested for strep and if they are strep positive, baby and mother are given antibiotics - I had an IV of antibiotics in me during labor, I’m a strep carrier (like Typhoid Mary, but I apparently don’t shed, its just always in my bloodstream). Hep is one where they vaccinate pretty much immediately after birth. It can take days before breastfeeding grants any immunity - I didn’t even produce colostrum for a week. During that time, people LOVE to play pass the baby, which is why a lot of pediatricians recommend limited visiting - particularly around vaccinated adults or children. And not all babies breastfeed for a year - even the ones that start on the breast. My daughter decided that six months was her limit, then rejected the breast (she’s still strong willed). Other women need to go back to work and can’t produce enough with a pump (or pumping and working turns out to be too hard - even with all the protections we have around working mothers now - even if you have a nice chair, a quiet room, and unlimited time, for many women, pumping isn’t easy or pleasant). My cousin was able to breastfeed Fall babies into Spring - but then needed her allergy medication which she didn’t want to pass to her babies through the milk. Its nice if you can, but not everyone finds it possible or desirable. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/653 "2013-06-07T18:09:12Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > God almighty, I come back from two weeks’ worth of travel, and **curlcoat** is still JAQing off. \ Heh. I’ll have to remember that. 🙂 My husband was having lunch with some co-workers last week, and the subject of not vaccinating your kids came up. He didn’t say anything at the time, but he’s been stewing over it for a couple of days now - he desperately wants to send them all a whole bunch of links! ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/654 "2013-06-08T02:12:59Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Um, that means if they’re not answering to you directly you’re not reading it? Yet many of those answers have the answers to the questions you keep saying. Hey, that explains it! I don’t know what it explains, but if you or anyone expects me to be able to keep up with all of the side conversations in this one thread, you’re crazy. I have a life. > [@](#): > > And no, I meant right after birth. Hep B vaccine, per the CDC webpage (that was linked several times). > > And read the thread. It was mentioned several times prior to your last reply that breastfeeding does not equal an endless transfer of protective antibodies from mom to offspring. Especially when people just start posting things that have zero to do with what I’ve posted. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > Well, shortly thereafter. There are a few things babies can get during delivery. Mothers are tested for strep and if they are strep positive, baby and mother are given antibiotics - I had an IV of antibiotics in me during labor, I’m a strep carrier (like Typhoid Mary, but I apparently don’t shed, its just always in my bloodstream). Hep is one where they vaccinate pretty much immediately after birth. Even if the mother doesn’t have it? It’s become that common? > [@](#): > > It can take days before breastfeeding grants any immunity - I didn’t even produce colostrum for a week. During that time, people LOVE to play pass the baby, which is why a lot of pediatricians recommend limited visiting - particularly around vaccinated adults or children. Ah. That’s one thing that didn’t occur to me - babies are born with their eyes and ears open, and are more or less taken out in public right away. Puppies don’t leave the nest until they can motor about on their own. > [@](#): > > And not all babies breastfeed for a year - even the ones that start on the breast. My daughter decided that six months was her limit, then rejected the breast (she’s still strong willed). Other women need to go back to work and can’t produce enough with a pump (or pumping and working turns out to be too hard - even with all the protections we have around working mothers now - even if you have a nice chair, a quiet room, and unlimited time, for many women, pumping isn’t easy or pleasant). My cousin was able to breastfeed Fall babies into Spring - but then needed her allergy medication which she didn’t want to pass to her babies through the milk. Its nice if you can, but not everyone finds it possible or desirable. If the baby breastfeeds for, say, six months are some of the vaccinations put off or is the schedule held to no matter what? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/655 "2013-06-08T03:12:15Z")
1. As was mentioned in one of the posts that you skimmed over, in humans the placenta is where most of the antibodies are transferred (not the case in other mammals). 2. Antibodies can also be passed via milk. 3. Mentioned quite a few times, antibodies transferred do not last forever. 4. One again, antibodies are not passed throughout the whole breastfeeding period. At some point, the transfer stops, and the antibodies passed begin to degrade and decline in numbers in the offspring over time. 5. I know you dislike her, but read **LavenderBlue** ’s previous posts where she discusses breastfeeding and vaccinations and immunization. A woman can breastfeed for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, but after a certain time, the transfer of passive immunity stops. The end. The baby is from then on responsible to develop and maintain his/her own antibodies and immune cells. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/656 "2013-09-01T02:22:22Z")
I’ve just been reading about a measles outbreak connected with a large church in Texas. They seem to think that if you have enough faith, you can be cured of anything. [http://news.msn.com/us/measles-cases-put-texas-megachurch-under-scrutiny/](http://news.msn.com/us/measles-cases-put-texas-megachurch-under-scrutiny/) Sure they had a vaccination drive after the news broke, but one of the senior pastors, daughter of the founder, said that folks shouldn’t feel compelled to do it if they thought it violated their beliefs. As a fairly devout Christian myself I believe in the old cliche “God helps those who help themselves” God gave us the brains to figure out how to protect ourselves, so what, we aren’t supposed to follow through? Sheesh! ---
**Author:** ![vd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b19c9b/32.png) [@vd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vd)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/657 "2013-09-01T14:50:03Z")
From another [article](http://www.npr.org/2013/09/01/217746942/texas-megachurch-at-center-of-measles-outbreak), this quote is a thing of beauty: > [@](#): > > Pearsons set up vaccination clinics on church property. But at the same time, when she preaches to her congregates the message is put your faith in God. > > “So I’m going to tell you what the facts are and the facts are the facts but then we know the truth, that always overcomes facts,” she said. _Edit: also that article has a photo of the church’s logo, featuring an eagle giving you the finger._ ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/658 "2013-09-01T15:18:40Z")
> [@vd](#): > > From another [article](http://www.npr.org/2013/09/01/217746942/texas-megachurch-at-center-of-measles-outbreak), this quote is a thing of beauty: > > **“So I’m going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts,” she has said.** > > _Edit: also that article has a photo of the church’s logo, featuring an eagle giving you the finger._ I think that quote just gave me a migraine. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/659 "2013-09-01T15:22:36Z")
From [here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/measles-cases-put-texas-megachurch-under-scrutiny/2013/08/31/6dfa8e1e-128a-11e3-bdf6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html): _“To get a vaccine would have been viewed by me and my friends and my peers as an act of fear — that you doubted God would keep you safe. . . . We simply didn’t do it,” former church member Amy Arden told the Associated Press… During an August 2010 broadcast, Copeland expressed shock at the number of vaccinations recommended for his great-grandchild. And his wife, Gloria, bragged during a conference that she and her husband don’t need prescription drugs, adding that the Lord heals all diseases."_ Why don’t these idiots ever get a revelation that God inspired the development of vaccines and other effective medical interventions? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/660 "2013-09-01T15:25:20Z")
That shithead Wakefield has managed to entangle himself in yet another ugly thing. Dorothy Spourdalakis brutally murdered her autistic son Alex. Reports seem to indicate she did so because he was autistic, extremely difficult to handle and she wanted to him to get Wakefield’s bullshit treatment rather than conventional medical help. Wakefield put his support for her desires in a video made a few days before the murder. Now the anti-vax nutters are running around gleefully [excusing](http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/08/cbs-and-autism-media-channel-a-prelude-to-a-tragedy-the-case-of-alex-spourdalakis.html) the murder of this poor kid. > **['Alex will not suffer under the system': How mother killed her autistic...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2407771/How-Dorothy-Spourdalakis-killed-autistic-teenage-son-Alex-restrained-hospital-bed-12-DAYS-doctors-understand-stomach-illness.html?ito=feeds-videoxml)** > > In a note that Dorothy Spourdalakis wrote before trying kill herself, she accused doctors of neglecting her ailing son and keeping him restrained 'like an animal.' > **[Whitewashing the brutal murder of Alex Spourdalakis](https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2013/08/31/whitewashing-the-brutal-murder-of-alex-spourdalakis/)** > > Alex Spourdalakis was a 14 year old autistic who was brutally murdered by his mother and another caregiver. Among those with extraordinary needs, Mr. Spourdalikis had extraordinary needs. Shortly b… Wakefield needs to finally shut the fuck up and go away already. He has no business being anywhere near children or being involved in their care in any way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=34)