# Massive measles outbreak - thank you, Andrew Fucking Wakefield **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119 "2013-04-19T10:56:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/661 "2013-09-01T16:22:45Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > That shithead Wakefield has managed to entangle himself in yet another ugly thing. Dorothy Spourdalakis brutally murdered her autistic son Alex. Reports seem to indicate she did so because he was autistic, extremely difficult to handle and she wanted to him to get Wakefield’s bullshit treatment rather than conventional medical help. Wakefield put his support for her desires in a video made a few days before the murder. Now the anti-vax nutters are running around gleefully [excusing](http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/08/cbs-and-autism-media-channel-a-prelude-to-a-tragedy-the-case-of-alex-spourdalakis.html) the murder of this poor kid. > > [How Dorothy Spourdalakis killed her autistic teenage son Alex after he was restrained in a hospital bed for 12 DAYS by doctors who couldn't understand he had a serious stomach illness | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2407771/How-Dorothy-Spourdalakis-killed-autistic-teenage-son-Alex-restrained-hospital-bed-12-DAYS-doctors-understand-stomach-illness.html?ito=feeds-videoxml) > > [Whitewashing the brutal murder of Alex Spourdalakis | Left Brain Right Brain](http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2013/08/31/whitewashing-the-brutal-murder-of-alex-spourdalakis/) > > Wakefield needs to finally shut the fuck up and go away already. He has no business being anywhere near children or being involved in their care in any way. Getting behind scumbag murderers is standard operating procedure for the anti-vaxx nutters: Case in point [Alan Yurko](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alan_Yurko) Vaccines break ribs, cause bleeding in the spine, brain and eyes, and there is no such thing as shaken baby syndrome according to them. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/662 "2013-09-01T16:34:12Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Why don’t these idiots ever get a revelation that God inspired the development of vaccines and other effective medical interventions? Better yet, why don’t they believe the revelation of their senses: that God let them down. He can’t be relied on and they should believe in something with a better track record. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/663 "2013-09-01T19:51:10Z")
Back when Kansans were getting ridiculed because the Board of Education was considering eliminating the teaching of evolution in public schools, the following humorous letter from God to the BOE came out. [http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/plant-ed/1999-August/004911.html](http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/plant-ed/1999-August/004911.html) My favorite quotation out of it, as it relates to the vaccination issue, is this \*You guys were supposed to figure it all out for yourselves, anyway. When you stumble over the truth, you are not supposed to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and proceed on as though nothing had happened. If you find a dinosaur’s toe, you’re not supposed to look for reasons to call it a croissant. You’re not big, drooling idiots. For that, I made dogs. \* In other words, God expects us to use the brains we were given to do great things, like make antibiotics, **vaccines** , chemo treatment, transplants, blood transfusions, and so on. He doesn’t expect us to be livestock or slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/664 "2013-09-02T17:51:46Z")
[QUOTE=God] You’re not big, drooling idiots. For that, I made dogs. [/QUOTE] Just as I was reading this line I heard soft yelps coming from the living room - my sleeping Labrador barking at a dream menace. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/665 "2013-09-07T14:21:22Z")
[Whooping cough reaches epidemic level in Texas](http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/09/06/us-usa-health-texas-idUKBRE98502A20130906) There should be ZERO cases in America. There COULD be zero cases. Why do so many Americans want to live in a third world country? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/666 "2013-09-07T14:40:03Z")
There’s also a measles outbreak [in Texas](http://www.burntorangereport.com/diary/14038/gohmert-calls-vaccines-a-liberal-plot-as-measles-outbreak-tears-through-north-texas). > [@](#): > > The outbreak, which has infected 21 people already, has been tied to a megachurch that preaches anti-vaccine propaganda. > > Most of the cases have been linked to Eagle Mountain International Church in Newark, TX, which is about an hour and a half northwest of Dallas. Since the outbreak, the church has set up free vaccination clinics on its premises. Pastor Terri Copeland Parsons, daughter of televangelist Kenneth Copeland, released a statement claiming that she’s not anti-vaccine, but she does have “reservations” about vaccines and autism. The original study linking vaccines to autism has been found to be fraudulent, and subsequent studies have debunked the autism claim even further. But science hasn’t been enough to convince Parsons or Copeland, who have both been known to tell congregants to trust their faith in God over modern medicine. In an online sermon posted following the outbreak, Parsons and her husband urged parishioners to get vaccinated, unless “you’ve got this covered in your household by faith and it crosses your heart of faith, then don’t go do it.” The article gives some historical background on measles & vaccination (or non-vaccination) history. And quotes “Texas Republican congressman and noted crazy person Rep. Louie Gohmert” on the topic… ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/667 "2013-09-07T17:20:06Z")
Not an epidemic, but there’s a [mumps outbreak](http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/05/health/new-jersey-mumps-outbreak/) in New Jersey. It’s just going to keep getting worse until enough of the “right” children die (read, children of the vaccine denialists), or we finally eliminate all non-medical exemptions for childhood vaccines. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/668 "2013-09-07T17:33:16Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > It’s just going to keep getting worse until enough of the “right” children die (read, children of the vaccine denialists), No, they’ll just become martyrs-by-proxy. Even self-imposed tragedy cannot change the minds of those who have already resolved to be lunatics. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/669 "2013-09-07T18:15:42Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > [Whooping cough reaches epidemic level in Texas](http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/09/06/us-usa-health-texas-idUKBRE98502A20130906) > > There should be ZERO cases in America. There COULD be zero cases. Why do so many Americans want to live in a third world country? To be fair, Texas is sort of a third world country, due to it’s proximity to Mexico. We have the same problems here in Southern California - one cannot eliminate diseases that have vaccines if we have people coming who have never had access to the shots. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/670 "2013-09-07T19:47:07Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > To be fair, > > \ > > if we have people coming who have never had access to the shots. This argument _might_ work better if it was primarily Mexican immigrants who were spreading the diseases. As noted above, the measles outbreak hit a megachurch. They’re constituency? Mostly white. How did they get hit? One of their members went to Indonesia and brought it back. Not an immigrant. The victims? Also not immigrants. Onto the pertussis outbreak. You think if it was limited to immigrants, we’d be having an epidemic? It is notable that a [large number of the cases come from Tarrant County](http://www.sacbee.com/2013/09/04/5706882/whooping-cough-outbreak-could.html), which has a lower percentage of Hispanics ([\< 20%](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarrant_County,_Texas)) than the Texas average ([36%](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarrant_County,_Texas)). Limiting to the estimated illegal immigrants? Tarrant County is more non-Hispanic white than most of Texas but is one of the Pertussis hotbeds. Who are the unvaccinated? [“More likely to be non-Hispanic white, have a mother who was older, married and who had a college degree. These children were more likely to live in a household with an annual income exceeding $75,000.”](http://www.immunizationinfo.org/science/demographics-unvaccinated-children) Your attempts at shifting the blame are not only wrong (hence a danger to public health through misinformation), it’s also racist. Combined with the nearly total and complete lack of knowledge you’ve displayed on vaccinations in this thread, you should feel ashamed of yourself, you ignorant, racist fool. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/671 "2013-09-07T20:34:12Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Your attempts at shifting the blame are not only wrong (hence a danger to public health through misinformation), it’s also racist. :rolleyes: Not only am I not trying to shift any blame, what I said wasn’t racist, it’s a reality. Mexico is, for the most part, a third world country. US states that border it end up with immigrants with third world problems, such as no vaccinations. And that is all I was addressing, the idea that those in Texas somehow want to live in a third world country, as if they had a choice. I have no interest in who you want to blame, all I was addressing was the fact that certain areas of our country have a large population of people who haven’t been vaccinated and may never be vaccinated. Jumping in and getting snarky about things that haven’t been said is the sign of a weak argument. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/672 "2013-09-07T20:38:46Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Jumping in and getting snarky about things that haven’t been said is the sign of a weak argument. No. Being flat out wrong is the sign of a weak argument. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/673 "2013-09-07T21:32:03Z")
Oh, is it time for Episode #50982t45i02tu0g of the **curlcoat** Show? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/674 "2013-09-07T21:34:12Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > No. Being flat out wrong is the sign of a weak argument. What part of what I said was wrong? ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/675 "2013-09-07T21:37:43Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Oh, is it time for Episode #50982t45i02tu0g of the **curlcoat** Show? It’s what the ignore list was created for. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/676 "2013-09-07T23:18:33Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > What part of what I said was wrong? That proximity to Mexico has anything to do with the prevention or amelioration of these diseases. Crazy idea: how about using real evidence, like the stuff I found. See, that’s the way evidence works. States like Arizona and New Mexico? Not such a problem with these diseases. But California and Texas? Where are the disease outbreaks? Not among immigrants. But among middle class white women who don’t vaccinate their kids (read the cites I provided). Based on the real evidence, you have a better shot at avoiding these completely avoidable diseases by refusing to hang out with college educated, middle class white women than by refusing to hang out with immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/677 "2013-09-08T00:40:48Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > That proximity to Mexico has anything to do with the prevention or amelioration of these diseases. > > Crazy idea: how about using real evidence, like the stuff I found. > > See, that’s the way evidence works. States like Arizona and New Mexico? Not such a problem with these diseases. But California and Texas? Where are the disease outbreaks? Not among immigrants. But among middle class white women who don’t vaccinate their kids (read the cites I provided). > > Based on the real evidence, you have a better shot at avoiding these completely avoidable diseases by refusing to hang out with college educated, middle class white women than by refusing to hang out with immigrants. It would help you you would quit making assumptions like this - I only refuse to hang out with parents who have out of control children. Other than that, I couldn’t care less what anyone’s education, class or color is. As a matter of fact, I live in an area basically surrounded by recent Mexican immigrants. I would be happy to provide you with a cite if such a thing existed, but stats on illegals tend to be difficult to get because, you know, they are illegal. Not that it has anything to do with anything, since all I said was Mexico is a third world country. And finally, college educated, middle class white women who don’t vaccinate their kids is your problem, not mine. I haven’t addressed that at all and your continuing to drag it in has zero to do with anything I’ve said. But, yeah, you keep trying to get me to rise to the strawman. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/678 "2013-09-08T00:58:06Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > And finally, college educated, middle class white women who don’t vaccinate their kids is your problem, not mine. Did you learn a single thing from this thread? A single thing? Do you even understand that many of the vaccine-preventable diseases are contagious? That even an adult can get a nasty case of pertussis with coughing so bad that you could wind up with broken ribs? Non-vaccination is everyone’s problem. You could wake up one day with a case of cancer and find your own immune system on the fritz. Then you could be one of those immune compromised people who have to worry the most about the stupid people who don’t vaccinate. It’s not just the kids and babies you hate so much. It’s the cancer patient. Or someone’s beloved granny. Or someone who got the shot and unfortunately does not produce enough antibodies to provide them with immunity. Stop posting. Go back, read the information we provided you with and STFU. Your deliberate ignorance is an insult to the purpose of this board. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/679 "2013-09-08T00:58:32Z")
Ignorance is the problem and it has many faces. The faces of the American Antivaxxers are usually white. And our poster child for ignorance has admitted she’d have reservations about vaccines if she had children… ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/680 "2013-09-08T01:17:50Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Did you learn a single thing from this thread? A single thing? Do you even understand that many of the vaccine-preventable diseases are contagious? That even an adult can get a nasty case of pertussis with coughing so bad that you could wind up with broken ribs? Look, just because you want to spend your life concerned about these things doesn’t mean it has to be a priority for everyone you cross paths with. There are so many things that poorly parented children are screwing up in my life that the possibility of catching some vaccine-preventable disease from one is low on my list. If you are really worried about adults catching things from unvaccinated kids, you’d be working on getting adults vaccinated as well, instead of just railing at a small portion of society. As I said, middle class folks not vaccinating their kids is your crusade, not mine. Seems if you were _really_ concerned with vaccine-preventable diseases, you’d address the problem of the third world country right next door and quit making up shit to yell at me about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=35)