# Massive measles outbreak - thank you, Andrew Fucking Wakefield **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119 "2013-04-19T10:56:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/681 "2013-09-08T01:26:44Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Look, just because you want to spend your life concerned about these things doesn’t mean it has to be a priority for everyone you cross paths with. There are so many things that poorly parented children are screwing up in my life that the possibility of catching some vaccine-preventable disease from one is low on my list. If you are really worried about adults catching things from unvaccinated kids, you’d be working on getting adults vaccinated as well, instead of just railing at a small portion of society. > > As I said, middle class folks not vaccinating their kids is your crusade, not mine. Seems if you were _really_ concerned with vaccine-preventable diseases, you’d address the problem of the third world country right next door and quit making up shit to yell at me about. Yet more proof (as if we needed any) that you are really, really, really stupid. Please go away. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/682 "2013-09-08T01:34:04Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Yet more proof (as if we needed any) that you are really, really, really stupid. Please go away. No, it’s you. You have this crusade you are on, and you violently push people away who don’t fall into step with you right off. Way to get them to vaccinate their kids. :rolleyes: I have no dog in this fight, yet you continue to make assumptions about me (all very negative of course), you continue to have these highly emotional outbursts because I dare to question something, and you continue to insist that I make your priorities mine. You really need to get over yourself - all I did was point out that Mexico is a third world country. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/683 "2013-09-08T01:38:54Z")
> [@](#): > > We have the same problems here in Southern California - one cannot eliminate diseases that have vaccines if we have people coming who have never had access to the shots. > [@](#): > > You really need to get over yourself - all I did was point out that Mexico is a third world country. You also tried to blame the outbreaks on immigrants, when it’s provably not true, and are now denying you did so. You are a liar, and ought to be ashamed, but everyone knows that will never happen. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/684 "2013-09-08T01:43:14Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > You also tried to blame the outbreaks on immigrants, when it’s provably not true, and are now denying you did so. You are a liar, and ought to be ashamed, but everyone knows that will never happen. No. I. Didn’t. I said that diseases cannot be eliminated from places like Texas if all you all are going to focus on is a small percentage of one portion of the population (hell, probably can’t eliminate them from anywhere with that narrow of a focus). That is what “one cannot eliminate diseases that have vaccines if we have people coming who have never had access to the shots” means. You even quoted it - go read it without bias. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/685 "2013-09-08T01:50:18Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > No, it’s you. You have this crusade you are on, and you violently push people away who don’t fall into step with you right off. Way to get them to vaccinate their kids. :rolleyes: > > I have no dog in this fight, yet you continue to make assumptions about me (all very negative of course), you continue to have these highly emotional outbursts because I dare to question something, and you continue to insist that I make your priorities mine. You really need to get over yourself - all I did was point out that Mexico is a third world country. Dear gut in himmel please grant me patience. You asked some dumb questions. You got serious answers to your questions even they were largely straight out of the anti-vax playbook. Answers as in people like myself (and many others) took the time to write out serious posts backed up with facts that answered your questions. Anyone who was not stupid would realize their questions had been answered. A smart person would thank the people who took the time to answer the questions they posed, admit they were wrong and attempt to walk away with some dignity intact. You’re just too stupid to do any of that. And you’re doing it again with your allegations about the cause of the pertussis and measles epidemics in Texas as **Great Antibob** pointed out. Admit you were wrong. Stop doing it and go away. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/686 "2013-09-08T02:21:48Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > That is what “one cannot eliminate diseases that have vaccines if we have people coming who have never had access to the shots” means. Bullshit. Why don’t they “have access”? Because they’re from Mexico? You think they don’t have vaccinations in Mexico? Why not? Mexico, unlike the US and like much of the rest of the developed world, has a fucking public [universal health system](http://open.salon.com/blog/loveinmexico/2011/02/14/a_healthy_body_politic_vaccines_in_mexico). Vaccinations are free and widely available to the public. And they’re pretty good about making sure kids get them. Vaccination rates for [pertussis](http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.IMM.IDPT/countries) and [measles](http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.IMM.MEAS/countries) is higher in Mexico than the US. “Never had access”? What the fuck does that mean? Not only do they have access, they fucking USE IT. More of their kids are vaccinated than ours. The idea that just because we live in the US, we must have better availability of vaccines is easily disproven - get your head out of your ass and look up the stats. That the idea even popped into your head is a classic example of racism. A simple 1 minute Google search shows the opposite of what you claim, you racist, ignorant piece of filth. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/687 "2013-09-08T02:48:31Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Look, just because you want to spend your life concerned about these things doesn’t mean it has to be a priority for everyone you cross paths with. There are so many things that poorly parented children are screwing up in my life that the possibility of catching some vaccine-preventable disease from one is low on my list. If you are really worried about adults catching things from unvaccinated kids, you’d be working on getting adults vaccinated as well, instead of just railing at a small portion of society. > > As I said, middle class folks not vaccinating their kids is your crusade, not mine. Seems if you were _really_ concerned with vaccine-preventable diseases, you’d address the problem of the third world country right next door and quit making up shit to yell at me about. I will not be able to sleep tonight knowing that there might be someone out there persuaded by your virulent stupidity. [Mexico is better at vaccinating children than the United States](http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/December2002/MexicoMore22.htm) [Mexico is better at vaccinating children than the United States](http://open.salon.com/blog/loveinmexico/2011/02/14/a_healthy_body_politic_vaccines_in_mexico) If I were living in Mexico, I would be more concerned about disease spillover from Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/688 "2013-09-08T04:37:29Z")
Oh good, it’s Antivax Groundhog Day, featuring the inimitable **curlcoat** and her “you’'ll never get me to stop using my head as a doorstop if you keep being so mean” routine. By the way, polio has been eradicated in all but six countries in the world. The 134 nations and territories that succeeded in eliminating this disease through vaccination overcame problems with poverty, lack of education and groundless fears. There’s no reason why Texas should have trouble vaccinating its citizens, unless they refuse due to religious superstition or **curlcoat** -like ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/689 "2013-09-08T05:34:37Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Seems if you were _really_ concerned with vaccine-preventable diseases, you’d address the problem of the third world country right next door So you’re going on record as claiming that 1) the source of the vaccine-preventable disease outbreaks is Mexicans, and 2) Mexicans aren’t well vaccinated? Just want to be clear. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/690 "2013-09-08T12:10:22Z")
Just to chime in with actual numbers, [98% of Mexican children are vaccinated against measles, as opposed to 90% of American children.](http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.IMM.MEAS) Please explain again how the third-world country next door is bringing in all these poor unfortunate carriers who have never had a chance to get the measles shots, dragging our own citizens down with them. And how this somehow has caused an outbreak of measles amongst white middle-class people who just happen to be associated with a church that preaches against vaccination. I’m afraid I didn’t quite follow the logic the first time. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/691 "2013-09-08T12:30:08Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > As I said, middle class folks not vaccinating their kids is your crusade, not mine. Seems if you were _really_ concerned with vaccine-preventable diseases, you’d address the problem of the third world country right next door and quit making up shit to yell at me about. Of course, you are absolutely correct. [So what can we do to increase vaccination rates in Colorado?](http://www.denverpost.com/ci_19429560) ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/692 "2013-09-08T12:56:30Z")
**curlcoat** , honey? I live in the mountains of North Carolina. More specifically, I live in the city that has one of the highest (if not the highest) percentage of children who get religious exemptions for required school vaccinations in the entire state. While the Hispanic/Latino population of western NC has gone up significantly in the past 20 years, it is still very, very low. Like, maybe 2 or 3% of the population. It’s mostly the rich white folks in the rich white parts of town getting these exemptions. Please explain how the Mexicans are causing this. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/693 "2013-09-08T14:56:36Z")
A note to **curlcoat** : The recent thread “In the history of the SDMB, has anyone been wrong about more things than **adaher** ” was not meant as a challenge for you to pop up and wrest away his title. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/694 "2013-09-08T15:05:27Z")
I can’t facepalm enough for such bigoted nonsense, even if the source is Curlcoat. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/695 "2013-09-08T16:09:41Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > A note to **curlcoat** : The recent thread “In the history of the SDMB, has anyone been wrong about more things than **adaher** ” was not meant as a challenge for you to pop up and wrest away his title. Bravo. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/696 "2013-09-08T16:33:21Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > It’s what the ignore list was created for. That doesn’t work when everybody quotes her droolings and keeps replying as if there’s ever going to be any hope of teaching her anything. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **curlcoat** quit making up shit to yell at me about. Every piece of information in this thread posted by anyone OTHER THAN YOU has been factual. YOU posted inaccurate information about vaccination in Mexico, and when corrected, continue to scream [NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqs9DYisSsg) in your inimitable moronic style. This thread has thus been another example of how you are a viciously stupid [attention whore](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110719123740/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/2/2b/Attention_Whore.jpg/180px-Attention_Whore.jpg) with no ability to learn a single fucking thing about anything anywhere at any time. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/697 "2013-09-09T04:14:49Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Dear gut in himmel please grant me patience. You asked some dumb questions. You got serious answers to your questions even they were largely straight out of the anti-vax playbook. Answers as in people like myself (and many others) took the time to write out serious posts backed up with facts that answered your questions. Do you ever wonder why it is that when you discuss this subject with people who don’t already agree with you, it always seems to turn into a war? It couldn’t be you and your way of, uh, educating them could it? > [@SpazCat](#): > > **curlcoat** , honey? I live in the mountains of North Carolina. More specifically, I live in the city that has one of the highest (if not the highest) percentage of children who get religious exemptions for required school vaccinations in the entire state. While the Hispanic/Latino population of western NC has gone up significantly in the past 20 years, it is still very, very low. Like, maybe 2 or 3% of the population. It’s mostly the rich white folks in the rich white parts of town getting these exemptions. > > Please explain how the Mexicans are causing this. I didn’t say they were. Please try reading - I specified _border states._ > [@Kolga](#): > > Every piece of information in this thread posted by anyone OTHER THAN YOU has been factual. Actually, it wasn’t. One link was in regards to children getting shots in school which ignores the fact that the folks trying to get out of Mexico to find a better life are generally not the ones that were able to attend school. The [average](http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/May/05/migration-fuels-tijuanas-growth/) education is ninth grade, and that average includes the “haves” who went to college, who have no reason to wander up here pick fruit or mow lawns. Things are much better in Tijuana than they were 20 years ago, but there are still a LOT of people there with little or no education and they are still building their homes out of our used garage doors. Another link was on measles only, and it didn’t say how they got the numbers - is this 98% of kids in school? Or, maybe it’s true that 98% are immunized against measles but it’s kind of hard to believe when one sees herds of them filthy and without clothes. Not too concerned with measles anyway - [hepatitis](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15231975) is more of a problem here. And the last link just said “this is so” with no cites. Have you ever been to Mexico? Lived near it? Anyone? And finally, this is just one more example of the kind of “thinking” that a few here do - grab one keyword and make up a story around it. You all seem to think for some bizarre reason that I am blaming all disease outbreaks on Mexico, even to the point that **SpazCat** wants to know how that can happen in North Carolina. When all I said was you cannot blame Texans for “wanting to live in a third world country”. :rolleyes: God you people are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/698 "2013-09-09T04:37:17Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Actually, it wasn’t. One link was in regards to children getting shots in school which ignores the fact that the folks trying to get out of Mexico to find a better life are generally not the ones that were able to attend school. The [average](http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/May/05/migration-fuels-tijuanas-growth/) education is ninth grade, and that average includes the “haves” who went to college, who have no reason to wander up here pick fruit or mow lawns. > > Another link was on measles only, and it didn’t say how they got the numbers - is this 98% of kids in school? Or, maybe it’s true that 98% are immunized against measles but it’s kind of hard to believe when one sees herds of them filthy and without clothes. Not too concerned with measles anyway - [hepatitis](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15231975) is more of a problem here. > > And the last link just said “this is so” with no cites. > > Have you ever been to Mexico? Lived near it? Anyone? > > :rolleyes: God you people are stupid. Actually I am Mexican and have lived here all my life. There is one thing on this thread that cannot be denied and that is you make completely ignorant assumptions about our country. You have absolutely no idea about the immunization program carried out by our health authorities but that does not stop you from commenting on a subject you know nothing about. You really should just shut your mouth. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/699 "2013-09-09T04:43:24Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Actually I am Mexican and have lived here all my life. There is one thing on this thread that cannot be denied and that is you make completely ignorant assumptions about our country. You have absolutely no idea about the immunization program carried out by our health authorities but that does not stop you from commenting on a subject you know nothing about. You really should just shut your mouth. Hey, great, someone who might actually have a clue! What part of Mexico do you live in? No, I have no idea about any immunization program there, not that you provided any information on it…However, what I have mostly commented on is not that, so I guess that is your personal keyword, huh? How about you explain it? Is it for more than measles? Are you immunizing everyone or just school children? Or did you just come in here to act like an ass, like the rest of them? ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/700 "2013-09-09T04:54:48Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Hey, great, someone who might actually have a clue! What part of Mexico do you live in? > > No, I have no idea about any immunization program there, not that you provided any information on it…However, what I have mostly commented on is not that, so I guess that is your personal keyword, huh? How about you explain it? Is it for more than measles? Are you immunizing everyone or just school children? > > Or did you just come in here to act like an ass, like the rest of them? What would be the point of my adding more to what has already been posted? You have already shown to be incapable and unwilling to view the subject in an objective manner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=36)