# Massive measles outbreak - thank you, Andrew Fucking Wakefield **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119 "2013-04-19T10:56:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/721 "2013-09-09T15:22:16Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Another link was on measles only, and it didn’t say how they got the numbers - is this 98% of kids in school? Or, maybe it’s true that 98% are immunized against measles but it’s kind of hard to believe when one sees herds of them filthy and without clothes. Well, regardless of how the World Bank, that group that’s so notorious for just making stuff up, generated their so-called “numbers”, I think we can all agree that those so-called “statistics” are trumped by the fact that you’ve seen some “herds” of “filthy” Mexicans running around. And everyone knows, after all, that the measles vaccine is only effective for as long as the vaccinated child remains spotlessly clean. What are those World Bank idiots thinking?! It’s like they didn’t even BOTHER to check with curlcoat! > [@](#): > > Not too concerned with measles anyway - [hepatitis](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15231975) is more of a problem here. Did anyone get the number of that goalpost that just flew past my head? Nearly laid me out, it did. Sheesh, people! Why are we continually talking about **measles** in a thread about **measles** outbreaks and their relationship to lack of **measles** vaccination?! WHY ISN’T THIS MEASLES THREAD ABOUT HEPATITIS, YOU BASTARDS?! ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/722 "2013-09-09T15:23:16Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Hey look, a [mumps outbreak in the Jersey Shore area](http://littlesilver.patch.com/groups/politics-and-elections/p/djais-closed-this-weekend-over-mumps-scare_c2225b18) - with a nightclub as its center. One confirmed case, 26 being investigated. Median age is 27, with all being adults except for one preschooler. Damn filthy unvaccinated Mexican kids, sneaking clear up to New Jersey to spread their filth. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/723 "2013-09-09T15:34:44Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Damn filthy unvaccinated Mexican kids, sneaking clear up to New Jersey to spread their filth. I know, right? Sneaking into countries, sneaking into nightclubs, same thing. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/724 "2013-09-09T15:43:35Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > A note to **curlcoat** : The recent thread “In the history of the SDMB, has anyone been wrong about more things than **adaher** ” was not meant as a challenge for you to pop up and wrest away his title. Oh I think she’s definitely gunning for the title. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/725 "2013-09-09T15:45:41Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Oh I think she’s definitely gunning for the title. I think we need to normalize the “stupid/wrong” score by dividing by the trolling quotient, which I think will knock curlcoat down a place or two. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/726 "2013-09-09T16:04:46Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > While others may not be as dense as the above poster, there are many who believe (even if they are pro-vaccines), that rates in other countries are dismally low. It is good to see data about vaccination rates in other places. Here’s the vaccine schedule in Europe: > **[Coronavirus: vaccination | ..:: Miss Wheelchair World ::..](https://www.misswheelchairworld.com/graphics/euvac/vaccination/vaccination.html)** The schedule differs slightly in many places from the one you’ll find here in America. Americans get the hep b at birth while several European countries may give it at three months, to a specific population or not at all. This is for a wide variety of reasons including the fact that have a much higher Asian population where the disease is unfortunately a huge health problem. Americans also get the chicken pox vaccine whereas many European countries may not give it all. Or only to a select population that has other health concerns. European vaccination rates have generally been quite high. Unfortunately the Wakefield scandal had a huge impact in some countries, particularly the UK where uptake of the MMR vaccine is only now beginning to catch up to where it was [before the scandal.](http://www.vaccinestoday.eu/vaccines/measles-vaccination-rates-in-uk-recover-after-14-years/) ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/727 "2013-09-09T16:58:34Z")
[O noes! It’s a librul conspiracy!](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/27/gohmert-scary-that-liberal-elites-would-use-vaccines-for-culling-the-population-of-humans/) > [@](#): > > Keyes warned that elites had a plan to reduce the number of people in the world to 700 million “by culling the population.” > > “They’re preaching that doctrine because they actually believe we’re a blight on the face of the planet, we human beings,” Keyes said. “And we should, therefore, be put on a path toward our own semi-extinction. I often try to get people to see that if you think about it, if we actually get back to the levels they’re talking about, it would just be these elitists and the people needed to service them. That’s all that will be left in the world.” ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/728 "2013-09-09T18:07:14Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Did anyone get the number of that goalpost that just flew past my head? Nearly laid me out, it did. How did you think those measles-infected Mexicans were getting to New Jersey? Someone has to steer those things. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/729 "2013-09-09T18:33:06Z")
**curlcoat** , I haven’t seen any evidence for your notion that Mexico is a more significant source of vaccine-preventable diseases than our own citizens. Can you explain why you think that? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/730 "2013-09-09T18:38:23Z")
> [@spinky](#): > > **curlcoat** , I haven’t seen any evidence for your notion that Mexico is a more significant source of vaccine-preventable diseases than our own citizens. Can you explain why you think that? She did explain that. It’s because she’s seen some dirty filthy Mexican kids running around, who are obviously carrying measles. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/731 "2013-09-09T19:10:41Z")
> [@spinky](#): > > **curlcoat** , I haven’t seen any evidence for your notion that Mexico is a more significant source of vaccine-preventable diseases than our own citizens. Can you explain why you think that? She thinks that because she’s a moron. The entire last pages of this thread are basically her asking stupid questions about vaccines, having multiple not-stupid posters answer her stupid questions and then having her ask them again. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/732 "2013-09-09T19:28:20Z")
Last year’s news articles on the reimmergence of whooping cough mentioned that most of the original cases were adults “from the Mexican immigrant community” who couldn’t afford the immunizations. It was hard to tell from the wording, but my best guess was that they couldn’t afford them in America. There was no way to tell if they had immigrated as adults or if they had been born in America. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/733 "2013-09-09T19:52:05Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Last year’s news articles on the reimmergence of whooping cough mentioned that most of the original cases were adults “from the Mexican immigrant community” who couldn’t afford the immunizations. That’s kind of interesting. The 2013 Texas outbreaks are mainly responsible due to the middle class Anglo populations, especially in the Austin and Fort Worth areas where anti-vax nuttery has especially taken root. The county with the biggest issues for Pertussis is Tarrant, which is both suburban and whiter than average for Texas. As for the measles outbreak, as I mentioned above, it was brought over by a middle class white man going to Indonesia. From him, it spread to the rest of his megachurch, which has a large population of anti-vax nutters (primarily middle class, suburban white people at that) which not surprisingly is also located in Tarrant County. We could probably do worse than blowing Tarrant County off the face of the earth. More than half of Texas might even agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/734 "2013-09-09T20:35:47Z")
I probably should have mentioned that the outbreak I was referring to was in California. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/735 "2013-09-10T01:27:43Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Last year’s news articles on the reimmergence of whooping cough mentioned that most of the original cases were adults “from the Mexican immigrant community” who couldn’t afford the immunizations. It was hard to tell from the wording, but my best guess was that they couldn’t afford them in America. There was no way to tell if they had immigrated as adults or if they had been born in America. I’d like to see those stories, if you can find them. I wonder if they were made by a reporter or an epidemiologist. [This one, from 2013, notes that the highest rates of both vaccine refusal and cases of pertussis were in Marin County](http://blogs.kqed.org/science/2013/07/10/whooping-cough-staging-comeback-in-california/). Wikipedia says that’s a pretty white area (although I don’t know…perhaps there are lots of Mexican immigrants working there, if not living there.) ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/736 "2013-09-10T03:30:45Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I’d like to see those stories, if you can find them. I wonder if they were made by a reporter or an epidemiologist. > > [This one, from 2013, notes that the highest rates of both vaccine refusal and cases of pertussis were in Marin County](http://blogs.kqed.org/science/2013/07/10/whooping-cough-staging-comeback-in-california/). Wikipedia says that’s a pretty white area (although I don’t know…perhaps there are lots of Mexican immigrants working there, if not living there.) The ones I remember reading were definitely reporters. I found this: [http://www.migrantclinician.org/issues/immunizations.html](http://www.migrantclinician.org/issues/immunizations.html) which is definitely NOT talking about pertussis coming from Mexico. Aha! The LA Times published a Q&A in 2010: [Archive blogs](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/09/q-a-on-whooping-cough-are-immigrants-fueling-the-epidemic.html) The first article states that Hispanic infants of migrant workers may not get the full series of shots as quickly as the schedule lists. And from the second article: > [@](#): > > •Hispanic infants are overrepresented among pertussis cases, but this discrepancy disappears after six months of age when most infants have received three doses of Dtap . . . > •Overall rates of pertussis disease are highest in whites. We think Hispanic infants are overrepresented among young infants because they are more likely to live in larger households . . . Apparently at the beginning of the resurgence (more than a year ago - time flies) the over-representation among infants was reported, without the contributing factors being noted, in the first wave of articles. Six months is the normal time to get the third shot, so most Hispanic babies are getting their shots on time. I knew it was the folks refusing to vaccinate that kept it spreading. Now I know that the previously reported Mexican connection was overblown and off base. Thanks for pressing for more information. There was definitely more information out there. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/737 "2013-09-10T12:30:31Z")
Thanks for digging deeper! That’s such a great example of how a correlation can get misinterpreted and misreported, and then misremembered by people. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/738 "2013-09-10T12:39:07Z")
I can’t decide whether to be pleased or depressed that this thread is still going. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/739 "2013-09-10T13:16:55Z")
So curlcoat gave up. Well that’s a bummer. You see, it requires some extremely special wilful ignorance to bring out the best weapons against it. This here thread’s got some darned good information in it. Now that curlie isn’t posting in this thread anymore, who will ask the truly stupid questions that the rest of us are too ashamed to admit to having ourselves? I mean come on…I’m pretty clueless regarding Mexican vaccination rates, but I don’t think I would have had the nuts to actually claim that they’re all just dirty poor people with a crap government who isn’t providing the health care necessary to avoid epidemic disease outbreaks… ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/740 "2013-09-10T13:17:10Z")
Actor Rob Schneider weighs in on this subject with a bit of nearly unreal bullshit: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S1-LgYyjQg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=38)