# Massive measles outbreak - thank you, Andrew Fucking Wakefield **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119 "2013-04-19T10:56:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/61 "2013-04-20T01:35:21Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Jeez. Obvious anti-vacc troll is obvious. I’m not getting a troll vibe from **AnthonyElite**. He seemed perfectly reasonable until he was attacked. **curlcoat** , check out my previous post in this thread - I quoted some pretty grim statistics on how many deaths measles are responsible for each year. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/62 "2013-04-20T01:38:05Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > **curlcoat** , check out my previous post in this thread - I quoted some pretty grim statistics on how many deaths measles are responsible for each year. That’s why I asked. Of course I was a kid at the time, but I don’t remember anyone being concerned about death when their kid got the measles. Unless it was the German measles. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/63 "2013-04-20T01:58:03Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > That’s why I asked. Of course I was a kid at the time, but I don’t remember anyone being concerned about death when their kid got the measles. Unless it was the German measles. It’s a similar situation with the flu. While there are flu deaths in the US, it’s naturally disproportionally more of a problem in poorer countries where health care and sound medical information are less available as is clean water, food, housing, etc. Apparently ([according to wiki anyway](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles)), in some of those countries, a fatality rate for measles approaching 30+% is not unheard of. If you get proper diagnosis and treatment sooner rather than later you can get better results. That’s not to say people in the US don’t die from the flu or the measles (they absolutely do) but it’s not the same problem it is in other countries. Even in the US, the modern fatality rate for measles (at least up to 2000, it may be higher now with fewer vaccinations) is 3 out of 1000 or 0.3%. While not particularly high, that’s atrocious for an otherwise avoidable disease. But these diseases making a comeback due to some douchetwit jackhole is infuriating as is anybody (not you, by the way) snidely questioning their efficacy when a vast metric whale-assload of evidence shows they absolutely are. ETA: I’ve also been patiently awaiting the end of polio. I promised all my friends I’d throw a massive party the day it was declared eradicated. It pisses me off to no end that more children have to suffer needlessly due to sick, ignorant fucks and to a lesser extent because I can’t throw my big bash. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/64 "2013-04-20T02:41:12Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I’m not getting a troll vibe from **AnthonyElite**. He seemed perfectly reasonable until he was attacked. Really? The whole “I’ve read a bunch, but I don’t get it?!?!?!?!?” plus a bunch of typical anti-vax stuff (‘natural’ immunity is better, etc, etc, etc) wasn’t a clue? It’s the new approach, 1. Pretend you don’t understand. 2. Ask questions. Step 1 makes the opponent explain the situation as they see it. This explanation can then be attacked by using Step 2. Basically it forces your opponent to soft-lob back to you. Step 2 asks questions about the explanation\*. Step 3 is to go round and round and round until the explainer gets tired. Step 4 is to declare victory\*\*. Note that the audience is NOT the person he/she is [del]arguing[/del]discussing reasonably with (that person has done the research). It’s the “undecided”. Some may be convinced and that counts as a win. \*These questions are probably based on either completely disproved science or pure unadulterated bullshit. \*\* Often by going away “unconvinced” by the explainer’s argument. This can then be later used as evidence that the other side lacks conviction/truthiness. “See in this thread I asked Poster A bunch of questions and never got answers! Obviously the pro-\_\_\_\_ side can’t make their case!” ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/65 "2013-04-20T03:08:13Z")
This is one of those times when living in a third world country has its advantages. Vaccination here is universal, free and mandatory for all children able to withstand it. Non-vaccinated children have a hard time getting into school. Another plus is that we still getting vaccines that other countries stopped using a long time ago (like Polio). My daughter got her full round of vaccines, one that was not in the schedule and will get the HPV one and a tetanus shot at 12 in time for puberty. I know somebody who suffered from Polio. This people are crazy and dangerous. I am glad you get to keep them. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/66 "2013-04-20T03:34:01Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Well, not quite true. I had influenza type B (which I have no idea what it is exactly) about 20 years ago, but I don’t go get the flu shots. I’m not part of any of the groups likely to get it and since I’m allergic to all kinds of things, I avoid unnecessary shots. > > Which leads into my question. I am not pro- or anti-vax, since I have no kids to have jabbed and never will. That out of the way, why are the measles such a big deal these days? When I was a kid during the Bronze Age, they gave the rubella shot to women planning on having children but the measles (“soft” measles) had no shot and I don’t think kids were given the rubella shot. (That’s the “german measles”, right?) Pretty much all of my friends in grade school got the measles, were out of school for a couple of days and that was that. What happened? A couple of days surprises me - you may be misrembering. Measles is far worse for very young children, so the ones who got the worst effects, like blindness, would not even have been in your school. I would have thought that there’d have been some measles vaccinations when you were a kid, though? The vaccine’s been around since 1963. Maybe the uptake wasn’t immediately universal, but it would have still made a difference. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/67 "2013-04-20T03:37:43Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > That’s why I asked. Of course I was a kid at the time, but I don’t remember anyone being concerned about death when their kid got the measles. Death’s not the only thing to worry about with measles - it can also cause severe brain damage and mental retardation. Most kids recovered fully, but everyone knew that a few unlucky ones did not. Parents didn’t worry about it much because there wasn’t anything they could do. Catching the disease was essentially unavoidable, and then it was just a matter of waiting to see what happened. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/68 "2013-04-20T03:52:49Z")
I think **Curlcoat** might be mixing up measles and rubella. It’s rubella that isn’t all that big a deal, usually, for children. Kids who missed a couple days of school most likely had rubella. Measles is a respiratory disease, with fever and rash, which can lead to pneumonia, and rarer cases, encephalitis. It can lead to blindness. Something like 450 children a day, worldwide, still die of it. It’s a week or more of fairly serious illness, even if you come out of it well. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/69 "2013-04-20T03:56:55Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Infection rates vs complications is a good measure. > > We don’t get immunized against stuff like typhus in the US because it’s not much of an issue. > > We also don’t immunize against polio or smallpox because we don’t get cases of those here anymore. Polio is still on the schedule, because it hasn’t been eradicated, which means it’s just a plane ride away. Three more countries and we can rethink that. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/70 "2013-04-20T04:13:29Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I would have thought that there’d have been some measles vaccinations when you were a kid, though? The vaccine’s been around since 1963. Maybe the uptake wasn’t immediately universal, but it would have still made a difference. If they started vaccinating babies (15 months) when the vaccine came out, **Curlcoat’s** birth cohort would have missed it by a bit. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/71 "2013-04-20T04:13:46Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Really? The whole “I’ve read a bunch, but I don’t get it?!?!?!?!?” plus a bunch of typical anti-vax stuff (‘natural’ immunity is better, etc, etc, etc) wasn’t a clue? It’s the new approach, 1. Pretend you don’t understand. 2. Ask questions. > > Step 1 makes the opponent explain the situation as they see it. This explanation can then be attacked by using Step 2. Basically it forces your opponent to soft-lob back to you. > Step 2 asks questions about the explanation\*. > Step 3 is to go round and round and round until the explainer gets tired. > Step 4 is to declare victory\*\*. > > Note that the audience is NOT the person he/she is [del]arguing[/del]discussing reasonably with (that person has done the research). It’s the “undecided”. Some may be convinced and that counts as a win. > > \*These questions are probably based on either completely disproved science or pure unadulterated bullshit. > \*\* Often by going away “unconvinced” by the explainer’s argument. This can then be later used as evidence that the other side lacks conviction/truthiness. “See in this thread I asked Poster A bunch of questions and never got answers! Obviously the pro-\_\_\_\_ side can’t make their case!” Boy, you guys are paranoid! > [@SciFiSam](#): > > A couple of days surprises me - you may be misrembering. Could easily be, but I don’t remember it as being that big of a deal. > [@](#): > > Measles is far worse for very young children, so the ones who got the worst effects, like blindness, would not even have been in your school. And they also weren’t siblings of the kids I knew. I’ve just never had the impression that measles was that big of a deal for anyone with a decent immune system. > [@](#): > > I would have thought that there’d have been some measles vaccinations when you were a kid, though? The vaccine’s been around since 1963. Maybe the uptake wasn’t immediately universal, but it would have still made a difference. Vaccine for the “soft” measles has been around since 1963? Anyway, I was born in 1957 so the vaccine probably wasn’t available to poor people when I was young. > [@artemis](#): > > Death’s not the only thing to worry about with measles - it can also cause severe brain damage and mental retardation. Most kids recovered fully, but everyone knew that a few unlucky ones did not. > > Parents didn’t worry about it much because there wasn’t anything they could do. Catching the disease was essentially unavoidable, and then it was just a matter of waiting to see what happened. Parents seemed to be far more concerned with the mumps than the measles. OTOH, we are talking me trying to remember what was going on over 40 years ago… 😃 > [@thirdwarning](#): > > I think **Curlcoat** might be mixing up measles and rubella. It’s rubella that isn’t all that big a deal, usually, for children. Kids who missed a couple days of school most likely had rubella. Measles is a respiratory disease, with fever and rash, which can lead to pneumonia, and rarer cases, encephalitis. It can lead to blindness. Something like 450 children a day, worldwide, still die of it. It’s a week or more of fairly serious illness, even if you come out of it well. So, rubella wasn’t the hard measles? \* Googles \* Ah, no it wasn’t but the word is almost the same. I guess I had the seriousness of rubella in pregnant women mixed up with what measles were a problem for kids. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/72 "2013-04-20T04:31:17Z")
My friend **S** grew up in rural Connecticut back in the '40s, and he remembers that in the summer, his relatives from NYC would come to stay on the family farm. They were fleeing the periodic polio outbreaks in the city. All these decades later, he still remembers the terror people had at the mention of the word “polio”. It was every parent’s nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/73 "2013-04-20T05:18:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Ah. Fair enough. I still think Wakefield should stand trial for all these deaths, but last time I proposed it I got yelled at. ☹ Come sit by me and we shall discuss my plan to haul him up on murder charges when I take over the world. > [@Jaymosch](#): > > Saying someone is broken or damaged by something is not dehumanizing them at all. You have an “interesting” definition of dehumanizing. Saying a child with autism is one that has lost his soul seems to me to be pretty dehumanizing. Read some autism advocates’ descriptions of their children. They talk incessantly of “recovering” their children, re-finding the child they know they should have, freeing their child of the “possession” of autism. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > I think he probably did (and does) believe vaccines (and in particular the MMR) cause autism. At the same time he was entirely willing to cut corners and fabricate research to support his beliefs and make gobs of money at the same time. You’re far too kind. I think he’s a psychopath who latched onto the issue to dupe grieving parents, a gullible public, and corrupt lawyers into a life of ease. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Wakefield’s latest stunt (I think he’s actually enjoying being back in the news again) is to call for a “televised public debate” about the MMR vaccine and his beliefs. Seeing as how our own **LavenderBlue** is a pro-vaccine doper with experience debating an antivaxer in public, maybe she can take Wakers up on his challenge (I’d contribute towards her airfare and lodging). 😃 She’d wipe the floor with him. And she’s better at not using foul language than I am (most of the time) 🙂 Of course, his latest calls for a “televised public debate” have been scaled back to refer specifically to one particular doctor who’s a critic of his. > [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > For those interested in this, [Refutations of Anti-Vaccine Memes](https://www.facebook.com/RtAVM?hc_location=stream) is a pretty cool Facebook group. They circulate pithy, high-impact images that counter the similar pictures anti-vaxers put out over social media. Both **Lavenderblue** and I are part of the group that works on those memes. Thank you for the support. > [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m just waiting for an anti-vaxxer to show up. They always do… Right on time. > [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > I’m still new around here, but didn’t I read in some thread that you’d published a book on this subject? Or am I misremembering and it’s someone else? Yes, **LavenderBlue** and I co-authored a book about this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/74 "2013-04-20T16:48:41Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Really? The whole “I’ve read a bunch, but I don’t get it?!?!?!?!?” plus a bunch of typical anti-vax stuff (‘natural’ immunity is better, etc, etc, etc) wasn’t a clue? It’s the new approach, 1. Pretend you don’t understand. 2. Ask questions. > > Step 1 makes the opponent explain the situation as they see it. This explanation can then be attacked by using Step 2. Basically it forces your opponent to soft-lob back to you. > Step 2 asks questions about the explanation\*. > Step 3 is to go round and round and round until the explainer gets tired. > Step 4 is to declare victory\*\*. > > Note that the audience is NOT the person he/she is [del]arguing[/del]discussing reasonably with (that person has done the research). It’s the “undecided”. Some may be convinced and that counts as a win. > > \*These questions are probably based on either completely disproved science or pure unadulterated bullshit. > \*\* Often by going away “unconvinced” by the explainer’s argument. This can then be later used as evidence that the other side lacks conviction/truthiness. “See in this thread I asked Poster A bunch of questions and never got answers! Obviously the pro-\_\_\_\_ side can’t make their case!” Eh, if I don’t understand something, I ask questions, too - I didn’t see him taking it to the nth degree to be a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/75 "2013-04-20T17:55:26Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > While not quite on that scale, there is an outbreak ongoing in North Carolina related to an unvaccinated family one of whom travelled to India and brought it home. Yes, and I live in the county with the highest number of unvaccinated children (Buncombe) so it’s probably going to be huge here. (Wow, I just had to add unvaccinated to Firefox’s dictionary. I hate ruining something’s innocence.) This is also the county with one of the highest concentrations of crunchy granola nimrods who believe vaccines are “unnatural” and cause autism, bleeding from the ears, and voting Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/76 "2013-04-20T18:58:51Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > Yes, and I live in the county with the highest number of unvaccinated children (Buncombe) so it’s probably going to be huge here. (Wow, I just had to add unvaccinated to Firefox’s dictionary. I hate ruining something’s innocence.) This is also the county with one of the highest concentrations of crunchy granola nimrods who believe vaccines are “unnatural” and cause autism, bleeding from the ears, and voting Republican. Ah, yes. Asheville. Or as I like to call it, “Boulder in the South.” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/77 "2013-04-20T19:07:51Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > Yes, and I live in the county with the highest number of unvaccinated children (Buncombe) so it’s probably going to be huge here. (Wow, I just had to add unvaccinated to Firefox’s dictionary. I hate ruining something’s innocence.) This is also the county with one of the highest concentrations of crunchy granola nimrods who believe vaccines are “unnatural” and cause autism, bleeding from the ears, and voting Republican. People need to turn the ol’ brain on and realize that “natural” does not equal “good.” There are lots of 100% natural things that will kill you quite dead without trying hard. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/78 "2013-04-20T20:08:48Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > People need to turn the ol’ brain on and realize that “natural” does not equal “good.” There are lots of 100% natural things that will kill you quite dead without trying hard. Oh yes. Cyanide is my favorite example. It comes in apple seeds! **Kolga** , I love being in Asheville. I can be considered conservative without changing my beliefs at all. ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/79 "2013-04-20T20:29:15Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > Even when he was debunked, many people didn’t stop believing that vaccines are bad. The new ‘popular’ idea among the idiot circles is that it’s much better for a child to build a ‘natural’ immunity to the disease by actually catching it. So these parents think it’s better for their children to get measles, mumps, chicken pox than to actually get a vaccine for it. One of my friends was upset because someone in her family received the chickenpox vaccine, and it turns out that they ended up needing a booster shot ten years later. This was their argument for passing chickenpox naturally instead. A booster shot!? Oh, the horror! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/80 "2013-04-20T21:00:02Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I’ve just never had the impression that measles was that big of a deal for anyone with a decent immune system. Depends on what you mean by a “big deal”. I am a little older than you, and I got measles before the vaccine was available. As a result I have partial hearing loss in one ear. And when the measles vaccine became available, my parents were lined up outside the doctor’s office with their noses pressed against the glass to get my sister immunized so it wouldn’t happen to her. ETA: Wakefield shouldn’t be in prison. He should be used for medical experiments. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=5)