# Massive measles outbreak - thank you, Andrew Fucking Wakefield **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119 "2013-04-19T10:56:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/941 "2014-07-31T22:02:45Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > How to totally freak out an anti-vaxer. Use a massive dose of the measles vaccine to cure cancer! > > Amazing, huh? [Maybe not.](http://www.amazon.com/Wish-Kids-Had-Cancer-Surviving/dp/1606720708) ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/942 "2014-08-01T01:28:39Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > [Maybe not.](http://www.amazon.com/Wish-Kids-Had-Cancer-Surviving/dp/1606720708) Did you check the reviews? 5 Star = 11 1 Star = 241 Average rating 1.2 ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/943 "2014-08-01T01:35:11Z")
Due to the writing of our book, **LavenderBlue** and I have gotten to know and be involved in the neurodiversity movement. Our friends’ response to that vile and repulsive book was…a sight to see. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/944 "2014-08-01T04:06:00Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Did you check the reviews? > 5 Star = 11 > 1 Star = 241 > Average rating 1.2 Of course I did. (I read most of them, actually!) But the fact that someone would go so far as to write such a thing? That doesn’t at least creep you out? The idea that someone would seriously prefer their child suffer from cancer rather than autism just horrifies me beyond belief. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/945 "2014-08-01T10:26:39Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Of course I did. (I read most of them, actually!) But the fact that someone would go so far as to write such a thing? That doesn’t at least creep you out? The idea that someone would seriously prefer their child suffer from cancer rather than autism just horrifies me beyond belief. How many people think that way but don’t admit it? At least this way we know who to shun. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/946 "2014-08-01T12:26:15Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Did you check the reviews? > 5 Star = 11 > 1 Star = 241 > Average rating 1.2 The “most helpful” _favorable_ review is entitled " A harrowing tale of a man’s quest to end his children." :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/947 "2014-08-27T03:40:49Z")
Here they go again. A couple of days ago CNN (fuck them) happily posted [this idiotic article](http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1164794) declaring that the CDC was covering up studies that showed MMR causing autism. This nonsense has started showing up in my FB feed. Note the article blissfully cites a [naturalnews.com](http://naturalnews.com) article as its source. They recently added a wimpy disclaimer at the top: > [@](#): > > - > > CNN PRODUCER NOTE CNN iReport is the network’s user-generated news community. This story was initially pulled for further review after it was flagged by the community. CNN has reached out to the CDC for comment and is working to confirm the claims in this iReport.\* Fuck that shit. [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp)already has hit the claim as ‘probably false’ and several [scienceblog authors](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/08/25/the-central-conspiracy-theory-of-the-antivaccine-movement/) have hammered the article for being little more that an antivaxxer’s poor analysis of an old study with a dramatic (and unnamed) ‘whistleblower’ at the CDC. CNN still has the article up and is letting the bullshit ride. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/948 "2014-08-27T04:05:11Z")
From the comments section: [http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/08/22/brian-hooker-proves-andrew-wakefield-wrong-about-vaccines-and-autism/#comment-346683](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/08/22/brian-hooker-proves-andrew-wakefield-wrong-about-vaccines-and-autism/#comment-346683) > [@](#): > > Ha Ha Ha ha. > > I have just done the multiple comparison calculation for Brian Hooker’s paper. I make it there are 35 different comparisons. > > 9 in Table 1 > 9 in Table 2 > 9 in Table 3 > 8 in Table 4 > > So the p value correction should have been p = 0.0015. > > So none of the effects reported are significant. > > Who would have guessed. Whoops. And then the comment below: > [@](#): > > @ Chris P: > > Oh I know. Isn’t that a question on every statistics exam? It would be funny if it wasn’t so sickening. Really, just read Orac’s posts on the issue. It’s pretty much straightforward lying with statistics, and Hooker and Wakefield deserve to be dragged out in the street and shot for their continued dishonest campaign against the single most valuable medical advancement since the discovery of microbes. When your fraud - not mistake, _intentional fraud_ as has been proven in the case of Wakefield - leads to people dying of measles, then you deserve to be tarred and feathered at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/949 "2014-08-27T05:33:41Z")
On another board I got banned for saying some bad things about vaccines and daring to question the standard reasoning behind the current vaccination schedules. From that experience and others I’ve learned to keep my mouth shut and to warn others to do so as well for fear of becoming shunned or worse. However since this board seems more open minded I think I’ll toss in my 2 cents worth. My view is that while vaccines are good, I feel they have been overly applied. For example my son, who has autism btw, was vaccinated when he was only maybe 24 hours old. You cannot convince me of the logic behind pumping such a young body with some mass-produced chemicals. Worse, they did it without even asking permission. Now with our 2nd son we waited until much later to start his vaccinations and he doesnt have autism. What I would like to see is more screening for potential side effects and a slower vaccination schedule. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/950 "2014-08-27T05:48:01Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > My view is that while vaccines are good, I feel they have been overly applied. Yeah, it’s a good thing we don’t have doctors or scientists or anything studying these things. Oh wait… > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You cannot convince me of the logic behind pumping such a young body with some mass-produced chemicals. Yeah, like all that mass-produced whey and caesin in breast milk and all that mass-produced water. Oh wait… Next thing you’ll tell me, giving sugar to kids makes them hyperactive. A good portion of the anti-vax movement is composed of college educated middle class people. In other words, people who are educated enough to think they can properly evaluate the data but too unsophisticated to realize how little they really understand about pretty much anything. My parents? Didn’t have that problem. Grew up in a 3rd world country. Vaccines? No problems with them. Funny thing about growing up in countries where diseases ran more rampant than in the US: they’re less finicky about stuff like vaccines. You need a couple generations of disease free kids to get this kind of literally batshit insane thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/951 "2014-08-27T07:22:10Z")
Emphasis mine. > [@](#): > > My view is that while vaccines are good, I feel they have been overly applied. For example my son, who has autism btw, was vaccinated when he was only maybe 24 hours old. **You cannot convince me of the logic behind pumping such a young body with some mass-produced chemicals.** Then why post here? As it happens, there are sound biological reasons why the spurious vaccine-autism connection is bullshit, and why the benefits to early vaccination massively outweigh any (tiny) risks there might be. But since you’ve already said you can’t be convinced, I won’t bother sharing them. I mean, if you’re not even prepared to _listen_, why waste the time? Of course, if you could tell us what it would take to change your mind, then we’ll have something to go on. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/952 "2014-08-27T07:27:56Z")
> [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](#): > > Emphasis mine. > > Then why post here? As it happens, there are sound biological reasons why the spurious vaccine-autism connection is bullshit, and why the benefits to early vaccination massively outweigh any (tiny) risks there might be. But since you’ve already said you can’t be convinced, I won’t bother sharing them. I mean, if you’re not even prepared to _listen_, why waste the time? > > Of course, if you could tell us what it would take to change your mind, then we’ll have something to go on. Why are you bothering? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/953 "2014-08-27T07:46:45Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You cannot convince me of the logic behind pumping such a young body with some mass-produced chemicals. What’s wrong with mass-produced chemicals? Are you some kind of medical hipster? Would chemicals hand-crafted by monks in a Tibetan monastery be more to your liking? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/954 "2014-08-27T08:23:26Z")
Dammit! _shakes tiny fist at **Grumman** _ ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/955 "2014-08-27T09:26:08Z")
If you would read my whole post you would see that I’m not anti vaccines. I just think the schedule needs to be redone. My kids have had all there vaccinations. Does it have to be all or nothing with the pro vaccine crowd? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/956 "2014-08-27T09:32:48Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > If you would read my whole post you would see that I’m not anti vaccines. I just think the schedule needs to be redone. My kids have had all there vaccinations. > > Does it have to be all or nothing with the pro vaccine crowd? On what basis should it be re-done? Quite a lot of dedicated experts have put quite a bit of thought into ensuring that the current vaccination schedule is as safe and effective as possible. You’re going to need more than a hunch if you’re going to persuade anyone that it’s flawed. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/957 "2014-08-27T10:28:08Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > What’s wrong with mass-produced chemicals? Are you some kind of medical hipster? Would chemicals hand-crafted by monks in a Tibetan monastery be more to your liking? I prefer my chemicals to be hand-crafted in ancient Incan ruins, thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/958 "2014-08-27T10:36:10Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > For example my son, who has autism btw, was vaccinated when he was only maybe 24 hours old… > > [snip] > > Now with our 2nd son we waited until much later to start his vaccinations and he doesnt have autism. I’m sorry your son has autism, I truly am. I also understand that this would be enough to cause a strong emotional reaction in you. Unfortunately, this reaction has crowded out your rationality to the point where you appear to be engaging in a leap of logic so outstanding that it would be uproariously funny in any other context. In this context, your logic is just tragic. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/959 "2014-08-27T11:12:29Z")
> **[Pharmaceutical Industry Reeling As More Moms Making Vaccines At Home](https://www.theonion.com/pharmaceutical-industry-reeling-as-more-moms-making-vac-1819576496)** > > NEW YORK—A wave of concern reportedly spread through the pharmaceutical industry this week as several major drug companies reported a dip in quarterly earnings, with experts placing the blame largely on the growing trend of mothers choosing to make... Incidentally, my daughter is autistic. And vaccines are awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/960 "2014-08-27T11:43:01Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > If you would read my whole post you would see that I’m not anti vaccines. I just think the schedule needs to be redone. > > My kids have had all there vaccinations. > > Does it have to be all or nothing with the pro vaccine crowd? Don’t take this the wrong way, but ‘change the schedule’ or ‘too much too soon’ are actually code-words from the anti-vaxx crew. It is how they try to appear more reasonable. So we get a bit testy when someone without any medical background comes in trying to suggest something that has no benefit and can actually result in more lost lives. When you start in with very ignorant lines like ‘mass produced chemicals’ you display whaleto-sized ignorance to those of us with a more scientific background. Fact is: The vaccine schedule is actually much reduced from years past (did your kids get a smallpox vaccination?). Furthermore, most of those vaccines your kids have actually have far fewer antigens than the ones you may have had in your youth. One of them used to have hundreds, now it has dozens. Changing the schedule only means that more very small children will be vulnerable to outbreaks for longer than is medically necessary. You trade a vulnerability to Mumps, Rubella, Whooping cough, measles, and other vaccine-preventable diseases for…what exactly? What benefit do we get for this vulnerability, exactly? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=49)