# Massive measles outbreak - thank you, Andrew Fucking Wakefield **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119 "2013-04-19T10:56:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/981 "2014-08-29T00:58:21Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I dont trust all the studies saying vaccines are safe because alot of money is at stake on the vaccination issue. The drug companies pay off alot of people in research and government just as years ago the tobacco companies paid off alot of people to keep the dangers of smoking hidden. Not really. Companies make far more money from treating disease rather than preventing it. Many vaccines are not that profitable. You want to see profits? Wakefield, anti-vax nut, lives in a huge house in Texas. Mercola, another anti-vax nut, lives in house worth over two million. He has so much money he donated a cool million to a notorious anti-vax group. > [@](#): > > For example [THIS](http://www.globalresearch.ca/vaccine-fraud-u-s-mainstream-media-censors-whistleblowers-explosive-story/5397607) article about possible CDC coverups. Totally bunk from a bad website that has been debunked here several times so far. My friend Liz Ditz [does another takedown.](http://nblo.gs/Zq0s7) Why would a black woman cover up something allegedly harmful to black children? > [@](#): > > On measles. Yes, an un-vaccinated kid could get the measles (extremely rare) and die (even more rare). The big risk is exposure and that is why we must always be vigilant for carriers. We should be checking vaccination records for foreign visitors and immigrants. Not rare before vaccines. Almost everyone got it. Fifty thousand hospitalizations a year and a few hundred deaths before the MMR. Measles is an incredibly contagious disease. It carries a roughly one in four risk of complications even in healthy people. Why are you so afraid of a vaccine and so unafraid of an actual disease? > [@](#): > > But is the chance of serious complications from the measles any worse than the chance to choke on something or get hurt falling in the bathtub? BTW, I had both mumps and chicken pox as a kid and didnt die from it. That’s nice. As I pointed out above a few hundred kids died from measles before the MMR. Today, you’ve still got thousands of deaths from measles in places like India. Why the lack of fear of fear from measles but somehow the shot is death on a platter? Does that make any sense at all? Why would you be that scared of a shot and that unafraid of an a full flown disease? I had chicken pox as a seven year old. Two weeks of itchy misery or a lousy shot? I know which one I’d take! > [@](#): > > Having them gave me immunity from them for life. it also strengthened my natural immune system. I rarely get sick from anything now except the occasional cold. Would the vaccines do that? > > Just my thoughts. My eldest is fully vaccinated. She also rarely gets sick. Your point? Three shots of the MMR provides nearly total immunity from those diseases. Why would you rather suffer instead? Especially when the risks of the disease greatly exceed the risks from the vaccine? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/982 "2014-08-29T01:35:43Z")
[Vaccines, as a whole, _worldwide_, make their manufacturers less than a single statin (Lipitor).](http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/24/3/622.full) [Vaccines make up 1.82% of drug revenue - a rounding error in a $1 _Trillion_ a year industry - and of that, less than half is actually profit - the rest is lost to the cost of the goods sold, corporate overhead and all the rest of the costs of doing business.](http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/big-pharma-supports-antivaccine-movement-conspirac-vaccines-maybe-not/) Individual offices often lose money on each vaccine they administer, because they don’t get reimbursed at the rate they pay for each dose. As a nurse, I don’t get paid a single dime for the vaccines I administer over my regular visit rate. Trust me, we’re (as individuals) not in it for the mountains of moolah. I, personally, could make more money if I _didn’t_ administer the flu shot to my patients, let them get sick with the flu and used their illness as justification to increase my visit frequency. But I don’t, because I’m not an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/983 "2014-08-29T02:58:47Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’m torn between responding to these accusations and giving you all just another chance to jump all over me, or to ignore and just go somewhere else. > > Ok, I’ll give you all something to jump me for. > > I dont trust all the studies saying vaccines are safe because alot of money is at stake on the vaccination issue. Oh yes, so very very profitable that the number of pharmacy companies that produce vaccines has dropped to single digits. Guess nobody wants a piece of that pie. > [@](#): > > The drug companies pay off alot of people in research and government just as years ago the tobacco companies paid off alot of people to keep the dangers of smoking hidden. For example [THIS](http://www.globalresearch.ca/vaccine-fraud-u-s-mainstream-media-censors-whistleblowers-explosive-story/5397607) article about possible CDC coverups. Please. Globalnonsense is a nonsense clearing house of conspiracy junk. Furthermore the alleged “CDC coverup” was pure bullshit from the start. Snopes even put up a page on it. They were not kind. > [@](#): > > On measles. Yes, an un-vaccinated kid could get the measles (extremely rare) Not rare at all before the vaccine. I got it. Lots of other kids got it. This was before vaccines. > [@](#): > > and die (even more rare). Death might be rare but with vaccines it is outright preventable. Furthermore many kids ended up in the hospital from complications. Permanent deafness and pneumonia are just some of the complications. Why risk that? > [@](#): > > The big risk is exposure and that is why we must always be vigilant for carriers. We should be checking vaccination records for foreign visitors and immigrants. Or maybe we could vaccinate ourselves and be done with it. > [@](#): > > But is the chance of serious complications from the measles any worse than the chance to choke on something or get hurt falling in the bathtub? If you have risks X, Y and Z and you have something incredibly simple to prevent X and Y, why are you avoiding it just because the probability of X and Y are the same as Z? > [@](#): > > BTW, I had both mumps and chicken pox as a kid and didnt die from it. So did I. Frankly I would have rather avoided it. > [@](#): > > Having them gave me immunity from them for life. And you only risked a small chance of deafness or death. yay. > [@](#): > > it also strengthened my natural immune system. I rarely get sick from anything now except the occasional cold. Would the vaccines do that? Are the kids who got the vaccinations sickly or something? Can’t say I have noticed them falling over dead due to disease in adulthood due to getting the MMR vaccine as a kid. > [@](#): > > Just my thoughts. Very poorly considered thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/984 "2014-08-29T03:19:44Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Jesus, that site is a conspiracy theorist’s dream. Current headlines refer to the [Pentagon’s Strategy for World Domination](http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-pentagons-strategy-for-world-domination-full-spectrum-dominance-from-asia-to-africa/5397514), a [Direct Path to Nuclear War with Russia](http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-russian-aggression-prevention-act-rapa-a-direct-path-to-nuclear-war-with-russia/5397171), and joint operations between [ISIS, Israel, Jordan, and the US](http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-isis-assisted-by-israel-jordan-and-the-u-s-detains-un-peacekeepers-in-israeli-occupied-golan-heights/5398071). If you read on that website that the sky is blue, you should probably go outside to double check it. > > And if you’re basing your scientific opinions on that website instead of on what actual scientists say and publish, all of your decision-making privileges should be revoked. Having a Doper of moderate membership length post that site is like finding out a co-worker collects the dismembered testicles of neutered dogs in jars of vinegar and keeps them in his file cabinet. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/985 "2014-08-29T03:31:08Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Why the lack of fear of fear from measles but somehow the shot is death on a platter? Does that make any sense at all? Why would you be that scared of a shot and that unafraid of an a full flown disease? It’s actually pretty much standard thinking for many if not a majority of people to pay no attention at all to the theoretical and external, and be massively swayed by the immediate and by personal experience, when calculating risks. Sticking a needle into a widdle tiny baby and injecting some unknown… stuff… causing the baby to cry seems bad. And if the baby then develops autism it seems catastrophic. Some disease that one has already survived and the risk of which can’t be seen or touched just means nothing. You’re wasting your breath. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/986 "2014-08-29T03:43:21Z")
Six people have told me I changed their minds on this issue. That’s probably not a lot. But some days when I’m feeling bad I think about them for a few minutes. It may not be raindrops on roses but those parents have over a dozen kids between them. People pay more attention than you might think. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/987 "2014-08-29T04:03:58Z")
I have spent the last half hour trying to find a link to it but there was a study recently in which a number (four?) of the “best” persuasive techniques were applied to anti-vaxxers and the effect on their beliefs measured. IIRC correctly, none worked - which is bad enough - but what is worse is that generally the anti-vaxxers views became more entrenched. I wish I could find a link to the study, it’s driving me nuts. The problem is there is so much stuff out there on vaccination and persuasion that I can’t find any combination of search terms that will find me the needle in the haystack. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/988 "2014-08-29T04:56:27Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I have spent the last half hour trying to find a link to it but there was a study recently in which a number (four?) of the “best” persuasive techniques were applied to anti-vaxxers and the effect on their beliefs measured. IIRC correctly, none worked - which is bad enough - but what is worse is that generally the anti-vaxxers views became more entrenched. > > I wish I could find a link to the study, it’s driving me nuts. The problem is there is so much stuff out there on vaccination and persuasion that I can’t find any combination of search terms that will find me the needle in the haystack. [This one?](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/antivaccination-parents-dig-in-heels-even-after-receiving-medical-info/) (it is a summary in SciAm, the main paper is subscription) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/989 "2014-08-29T05:00:18Z")
> [@](#): > > needle in the haystack Nicely done. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/990 "2014-08-29T06:02:48Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > [This one?](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/antivaccination-parents-dig-in-heels-even-after-receiving-medical-info/) (it is a summary in SciAm, the main paper is subscription) Phew, thanks, that’s it **Mr Misk**. You’re a legend. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/991 "2014-08-29T17:27:03Z")
The big vaccine news story of the week (surpassing the CDC Whistleblower Implosion Conspiracy) is the ramping up of Ebola vaccine testing to help thwart the disease’s rapid spread in Africa (while it threatens other areas as well). Good news though - we don’t need no steenking vaccine, thanks to the miracle of digitized homeopathic mp3 files now available to treat Ebola: [http://www.emergencydr.org](http://www.emergencydr.org) Bearing in mind that a group called Homeopaths Without Borders went to Haiti to provide care after the earthquake, one wonders why they haven’t yet organized a mission to Liberia. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/992 "2014-08-29T21:01:55Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Bearing in mind that a group called Homeopaths Without Borders went to Haiti to provide care after the earthquake, one wonders why they haven’t yet organized a mission to Liberia. It’s homeopathy. The fewer of them there are in the country, the more effective they are… Hang on… We’ve circled clear around through so many layers of wrong that we’re actually back to right. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/993 "2014-08-29T21:49:57Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > BTW, I had both mumps and chicken pox as a kid and didnt die from it. Yeah, I had chicken pox too. I brought it home and gave it to both of my sisters. My oldest sister was sixteen when she caught it from me. To this day I don’t think she’s forgiven me for that. Also, now all three of us have to worry that we might get [shingles](http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/shingles/basics/definition/con-20019574)later in life. I know people with shingles. The terms they’ve used to describe the pain are…colorful at best. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/994 "2014-08-30T04:29:01Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Can I go on record as doubting this is the case as you describe? > > Seriously, what forum banned you for that? > > To date it is the anti-vaxxers who demonstrate horrible ability to deal with criticism and ban people. I could buy that a self-respecting message board would ban an anti-vaxxer, just to avoid giving them a forum for their bullshit ideas. The SDMB, however, is a tad shameless when it comes to entertaining bullshit ideas, if only to engage in a futile attempt at dismantling them. Urbanredneck’s not going to be convinced by anyone - our objections and scorn only reinforce his resolve. Frankly, if he was banned from the get-go, I can’t say we’d be the poorer for it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/995 "2014-08-30T04:35:15Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The big vaccine news story of the week (surpassing the CDC Whistleblower Implosion Conspiracy) is the ramping up of Ebola vaccine testing to help thwart the disease’s rapid spread in Africa (while it threatens other areas as well). > > Good news though - we don’t need no steenking vaccine, thanks to the miracle of digitized homeopathic mp3 files now available to treat Ebola: > > [http://www.emergencydr.org](http://www.emergencydr.org) > > Bearing in mind that a group called Homeopaths Without Borders went to Haiti to provide care after the earthquake, one wonders why they haven’t yet organized a mission to Liberia. I wrote a comment (“So what happens if I take too many doses and get overstimulated? Will I get superpowers?”) at 12:32 a.m. Eastern time. Let’s see how long before it gets deleted or diluted to 30C or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/996 "2014-08-30T05:19:58Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > On measles. Yes, an un-vaccinated kid could get the measles (extremely rare) and die (even more rare). The big risk is exposure and that is why we must always be vigilant for carriers. We should be checking vaccination records for foreign visitors and immigrants. But is the chance of serious complications from the measles any worse than the chance to choke on something or get hurt falling in the bathtub? Hypocrisy at its most raw: we must be ever vigilant that those other _foreign_ guys get vaccinated, but it’s not that big a deal for _us_ to get vaccinated. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/997 "2014-08-30T10:24:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The SDMB, however, is a tad shameless when it comes to entertaining bullshit ideas, if only to engage in a futile attempt at dismantling them. I prefer to think of them as the steel we sharpen our wit upon. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/998 "2014-09-25T00:17:03Z")
On the good news front, Rob Schneider has been [dumped by State Farm](http://www.mercurynews.com/entertainment/ci_26598505/rob-schneider-anti-vaccine-stance-gets-his-commercial) for his anti-vaccine stance. It’s nice to see a story in which the social media protest is on the side of the science, and is actually successful. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/999 "2014-09-25T00:42:33Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > On the good news front, Rob Schneider has been [dumped by State Farm](http://www.mercurynews.com/entertainment/ci_26598505/rob-schneider-anti-vaccine-stance-gets-his-commercial) for his anti-vaccine stance. It’s nice to see a story in which the social media protest is on the side of the science, and is actually successful. I love the way Schneider’s response is to protest that he’s being censored by State Farm, even though 1) he makes no anti-vax statements in the ad and 2) State Farm is not an arm of the government. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1000 "2014-09-25T01:38:35Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I love the way Schneider’s response is to protest that he’s being censored by State Farm, even though 1) he makes no anti-vax statements in the ad and 2) State Farm is not an arm of the government. But he actually is being censored by State Farm. Censorship is not solely an action of governments. The real (and somewhat subtle) problem is that he’s trying to imply any form of censorship as a bad thing. It’s not always automatically bad and the extent and range actually do matter. In this particular case, State Farm is only preventing Rob Schneider from speaking for them, not from freely expressing his views in other venues. As such, they’re imposing an incredibly mild form of censorship and one that’s usually considered perfectly acceptable, i.e. not to be forced to be represented by somebody with views antithetical to your own. Basically, he’s using a variant of the “you have to be tolerant of the intolerant” argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=51)