# Massive measles outbreak - thank you, Andrew Fucking Wakefield **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119 "2013-04-19T10:56:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/848f3c/32.png) [@The\_Holdsworth\_Effect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Holdsworth_Effect)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1021 "2014-10-11T14:16:30Z")
“Flu like illness” is indeed a diagnosis- but IMO not often nearly as bad, and I’m going to borrow Rick’s description 😉 Ironically I’ve been able to get folk to take the 2014 flu shot by pointing out that the flu kills people much more often than Ebola (I say this with a straight face) and they need to maximize their resistance. Picture this- man in grocery line with quite a serious case of Dunlop disease and a cart containing beer, chips, Oreos, and dips, stating loudly that he doesn’t get flu shots because the flu can be prevented by good nutrition. Fucking idiot on a lot of levels. I’m a Guillain Barre survivor, 1975. That was the year before it was considered a reaction to swine flu vaccine. For a very long time flu shots were not recommended due to fears of causing recurrence- and I’d get it, sometimes badly, sometimes not. What a relief for the last decade of being allowed to get them (and I always check yes on the questionnaire)- no flu (imagine that) in spite of working in ambulatory care. Having read only the first ten pages of this I might be guilty of repetition- but are the antivaxxers willing to quarantine their families while letting the kids acquire natural immunity? My mother’s generation (b 1926) had quite strict rules- she was quarantined for MMR and scarlet fever. Doctors made house calls then, as did my GP when I had the now VPDs, so as to keep us out of the office. I lost half of the spring of my 4th grade year because of mumps on one side, measles, followed by mumps on the other. So- I wholeheartedly pit antivaxxers, only a few of whom I’ve ever been able to convince otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1022 "2014-10-11T16:54:10Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > :smack: I am unfamiliar with all of the funny in that movie. I know the basic stuff that everybody throws around, but not everything. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn0WdJx-Wkw) ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_Hey_Paula)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1023 "2014-10-12T00:40:39Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I get the flu shot regularly. I’ve never gotten the flu. I did not get a flu shot for a good decade because I am allergic to the preservative. I think I got the flu once during that time period. Now I get the non-preserved flu shot, and I haven’t gotten the flu since. Thanks for the reminder to go get my flu shot! ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1024 "2014-10-12T05:46:05Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > - Guy seemingly parodying a fox news anchor or something. Nice stab. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1025 "2014-10-14T02:28:00Z")
Brian Deer (the investigative reporter who revealed Andrew Wakefield’s unethical and dishonest research on the MMR vaccine) has a new story out about the continued fallout from the Wakefield scandal. This time it’s the sad tale of a “mommy warrior” found to have fabricated accounts of her son’s autism which was falsely blamed on the vaccine and to have engaged in Munchausen’s syndrome by proxy. “She claimed that from the time of his vaccination M had suffered from “autistic enterocolitis”, a novel condition not accepted by medical opinion but cited by Wakefield in his spurious research. Other ailments itemised with incredulity in (a British court judgment revoking her legal deputyship over her son) include loss of sensation in (the child’s) hands and feet, adverse effects of “electromagnetic energies”, apparent brain seizures, meningitis, “leaky gut syndrome”, Lyme disease, uncontrollable sneezing, a shut-down of his urinary system, “tumours” in his gums, chronic blood poisoning, uncontrollable temperatures, a “black shadow sitting on his left sinuses”, stabbing pains in his groin, rheumatoid arthritis, heavy metal poisoning and “black gunge oozing from every orifice”. (The mother) embarked upon often costly remedies, including tin-foil wrapping on electrical equipment in (the child’s) room, cranial osteopathy, reflexology, six-hour sessions in an oxygen chamber and handfuls of pills…” “In (the judge’s) view, (the mother) subjected her son to unnecessary tests and interventions and/or lied about purported illnesses. She denied (him) the chance to develop more independence. She allowed the pain of a dental abscess to go untreated for a year, then planned to send the lost teeth to Wakefield. And there are the conspiracy theories: thousands of doctors, scientists (and reporter Deer) conceal alleged horrific injuries to children; judges deny fairness; and social workers wish to remove autistic victims from their parents. “(Her) allegations of multiple conspiracies are a fantasy,” (the judge) says… The judge found her controlling, manipulative, duplicitous and obstructive. “In 35 years of family law and in the Court of Protection, dealing with many hundreds of families,” he writes, “I have rarely, if ever, come across someone who is so difficult.” He adds: “(She) has dominated this hearing in a way quite unlike any other case in my professional experience. On more than one occasion she said that this case was about her and, although she was quick to retract that comment, when I pointed out that it was actually about (her son), there was no doubt that she felt she was the main focus of the inquiry. She was the centre of attention and, in my judgment, at times obviously enjoying the experience.”… Here was a mother condemned like few others. It shows how Wakefield’s shadow continues to fall long after he was struck off. For (she) could be countless mothers, particularly in America where hardly a month passes without an appearance by Wakefield at conferences crowded with mother warriors. They trust him, I think, because the alternative is to blame themselves for their children’s condition.” > **[Mother lies over vaccine injury – briandeer.com](https://briandeer.com/solved/st-october-12-2014-lying-mother.htm)** ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1026 "2014-10-14T15:59:47Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Brian Deer (the investigative reporter who revealed Andrew Wakefield’s unethical and dishonest research on the MMR vaccine) has a new story out about the continued fallout from the Wakefield scandal. > > [Snipping stuff that makes me sick] Now see, if he had been a crystal child she could have fixed him with her Super Mommy Touch. That’s the real issue here. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1027 "2014-11-14T22:40:06Z")
more on the spread A Disease We Thought Was History Is Making An Alarming Comeback > **[A Disease We Thought Was History Is Making An Alarming Comeback](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/disease-thought-history-making-alarming-194600629.html)** > > We always fear the wrong things. We worry... ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1028 "2015-01-22T21:45:33Z")
A friend posted a related link on FB: How do vaccines cause autism? kinda NSFW [www.howdovaccinescauseautism.com](http://www.howdovaccinescauseautism.com) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1029 "2015-01-22T22:27:34Z")
Wasn’t going to bump it just to post this, but since it was bumped already… I wrote a guest blog last week for the Immunization Partnership. Nothing as exciting as our own Doper’s book on vaccines, but… they tell me it’s (as of a couple of days ago) the second most read blog they’ve published! [Switching Sides: From Anti-Vaccine to Pro](https://theimmunizationpartnership.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/switching-sides-from-anti-vaccine-to-pro/) ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1030 "2015-01-22T23:31:06Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Wasn’t going to bump it just to post this, but since it was bumped already… > > I wrote a guest blog last week for the Immunization Partnership. Nothing as exciting as our own Doper’s book on vaccines, but… they tell me it’s (as of a couple of days ago) the second most read blog they’ve published! > > [Switching Sides: From Anti-Vaccine to Pro](https://theimmunizationpartnership.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/switching-sides-from-anti-vaccine-to-pro/) Great work,hon! I just worry that this is what it is going to take: thousands of cases of measles again for no reason. Over the years I’ve come to the conclusion that the best we can do is a) make it harder for those who are anti-vax for non-medical reasons to do things like send their kids to school and b) pat those on the back who are pro-vax a little harder. I think that gets lost in the shuffle. We spend a little too much IMO respecting people who don’t vax and too little respecting those who do. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1031 "2015-01-22T23:46:24Z")
Nicely done, **WhyNot**. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1032 "2015-01-29T06:44:49Z")
> [@](#): > > With as many as 1,000 people across three Arizona counties potentially exposed to the measles, state public-health officials are asking people who think they may have come in contact with the virus to isolate themselves. > > In addition, they are asking those who may have been exposed not to show up at doctors’ offices, emergency rooms or urgent-care centers, where others could be exposed to the highly contagious virus, which can linger in the air for two hours. > **[Officials: Up to 1K possibly exposed to measles in Ariz.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/29/officials-up-to-1k-possibly-exposed-to-measles-in-arizona/22511335/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatoday-newstopstories)** > > People who think they may have come in contact with the virus asked to isolate themselves. > [@](#): > > A sweeping measles outbreak that has infected more than 70 people in California is causing physicians and public health officials to raise the alarm about the large number of people who either have not been vaccinated against the disease at all or have not received adequate boosters. Although one Sacramento County specimen came back negative for measles from state labs this week, another is being tested, with results expectedThursday. [http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/health-and-medicine/healthy-choices/article8517110.html](http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/health-and-medicine/healthy-choices/article8517110.html) > [@](#): > > The California-centered measles outbreak has spread to Michigan, as the number of cases climbed to 95 in eight states and Mexico, officials said Wednesday. > **[Measles outbreak: At least 95 cases in eight states and Mexico](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-measles-outbreak-20150128-story.html)** > > The California-centered measles outbreak has spread to Michigan, as the number of cases climbed to 95 in eight states and Mexico, officials said Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1033 "2015-01-29T18:40:43Z")
The woman who caused the Disneyland measles outbreak is known. Why haven’t some of the victims sued her in court for damages? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1034 "2015-01-29T20:47:41Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > The woman who caused the Disneyland measles outbreak is known. > Why haven’t some of the victims sued her in court for damages? It might be doable: > [@](#): > > [http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2015/01/28/measles-is-spreading-and-kids-might-die-sue-parents-who-didnt-vaccinate-absolutely/2/](http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2015/01/28/measles-is-spreading-and-kids-might-die-sue-parents-who-didnt-vaccinate-absolutely/2/) > > But is not vaccinating your kids actually a crime? > > “Legally, it would be very difficult to make out a criminal case, if we’re just looking at the bare bones of how the law treats this sort of scenario,” Nicholas Diamond acknowledged. But “a prosecutor with a passion and willingness for the issue could pursue it … even if nothing really comes of it, to shift the policy dialogue in favor of vaccination.” ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1035 "2015-01-29T21:02:12Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > “Legally, it would be very difficult to make out a criminal case, if we’re just looking at the bare bones of how the law treats this sort of scenario,” Nicholas Diamond acknowledged. But “a prosecutor with a passion and willingness for the issue could pursue it … even if nothing really comes of it, to shift the policy dialogue in favor of vaccination.” I was not thinking of criminal charges (which is why I said “suing for damages”). I was thinking of a civil lawsuit against her for the damages she has caused to them/their children. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1036 "2015-01-29T21:30:19Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I was not thinking of criminal charges (which is why I said “suing for damages”). I was thinking of a civil lawsuit against her for the damages she has caused to them/their children. The article I pulled up also links to a paper that talks about criminal and civil charges. > [@](#): > > [(PDF) Free to choose but liable for the consequences: should non-vaccinators be penalized for the harm they do | Arthur Caplan - Academia.edu](http://www.academia.edu/2344148/Free_to_choose_but_liable_for_the_consequences_should_non-vaccinators_be_penalized_for_the_harm_they_do) > > A strong argument can be that a > prima acie > case or civil liability exists under a theory o tortious negligence. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1037 "2015-01-29T22:53:33Z")
This ended up on my Facebook feed, thankfully not from a total antivaxxer. As Penn Jillette would say:[Then there’s this asshole](http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/arizona-cardiologist-responds-to-critics-regarding-measles-and-vaccines/) ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1038 "2015-01-29T23:28:28Z")
On the plus side this just happened: [http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jan/29/anti-vaccination-campaigner-sherri-tenpenny-cancels-australian-tour](http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jan/29/anti-vaccination-campaigner-sherri-tenpenny-cancels-australian-tour) > [@](#): > > The controversial US anti-vaccination campaigner Sherri Tenpenny has cancelled her Australian tour following weeks of public pressure, blaming “anti-free-speech terrorists”. > > The osteopath had planned 11 seminars and dinners throughout the country, where people could pay up to $200 to hear her talk about the “dangers” of vaccinations and have their photo taken with her. > > Guardian Australia recently revealed eight venues that were due to host Tenpenny had cancelled following mounting public pressure. > … > > One venue owner, from Queensland, reported receiving a bomb threat, **but that was later revealed to have come from an anti-vaccination advocate who was disturbed by the thought that Tenpenny’s event might not go ahead** . Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1039 "2015-01-30T01:10:34Z")
I’m totally OK with the anti-vaxxers. Natural selection is at work, nothing to see here, moving along. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1040 "2015-01-30T01:48:10Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > I’m totally OK with the anti-vaxxers. Natural selection is at work, nothing to see here, moving along. Except for the part where they give measles to those who can’t get the vaccine (like every baby under 1, those in chemotherapy, those allergic to the vaccine components) or who got the vaccine but didn’t develop immunity to the measles (about 1% of those with MMR vaccination history will still catch it when exposed to the virus. Better than the unvaccinated rate of 90%, but still not none.) Yeah, sure. Want to kill your kid? Be my guest, I guess…except we don’t accept people actively killing their kids with guns or poison, or putting their health at risk through other forms of neglect. But it’s more than just their own kids they’re putting at risk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=53)