# Massive measles outbreak - thank you, Andrew Fucking Wakefield **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119 "2013-04-19T10:56:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1061 "2015-02-01T09:17:34Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Like other antivax memes, this one keeps getting recycled despite its lack of validity. Paul Krugman often discusses discredited “arguments that have been proved wrong, should be dead, but keep shambling along because they serve a political purpose” (Krugman’s words). He calls them _zombie arguments._ Example: [Veterans and Zombies The Hype Behind the Health Care Scandal](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/20/opinion/the-hype-behind-the-health-care-scandal.html), Paul Krugman, New York Times, June 19, 2014, 7th paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1062 "2015-02-01T13:21:11Z")
One of the great things about both me and my wife working in the pharmaceutical industry, where most of our friends also work: We believe in our products. To those who don’t, consider that the very people who perform the research and would therefore know what studies have been buried vaccinate their kids. Every single one I know. Contrast to the tobacco executive who freaks out when he discovers his kid is smoking. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1063 "2015-02-02T03:40:35Z")
Why Even Vaccinated People Can Catch Measles [https://gma.yahoo.com/why-even-vaccinated-people-catch-measles-113125324--abc-news-wellness.html](https://gma.yahoo.com/why-even-vaccinated-people-catch-measles-113125324--abc-news-wellness.html) herd immunity is needed. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1064 "2015-02-02T23:41:48Z")
now 102 cases in 14 states for the year. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1065 "2015-02-03T18:21:33Z")
Has anybody heard of Dr Jack Wolfson, self-styled paleo-cardiologist & vaccine opponent? From [AZCentral](http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/12-news/2015/01/23/12news-doctor-dont-vaccinate/22200535/): > [@](#): > > Despite a recent measles outbreak in California, a Valley doctor believes children should not get vaccinated and that they should be getting this kind of infection. > > “We should be getting measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, these are the rights of our children to get it,” said Dr. Jack Wolfson of Wolfson Integrative Cardiology in Paradise Valley. > > Wolfson does not believe in vaccination. “We do not need to inject chemicals into ourselves and into our children in order to boost our immune system,” he said. There’s lots more. He’s been getting lots of coverage–quite a bit of it extremely angry. (But some not angry enough.) Apparently he found Truth after he married a chiropractor. And he has a website where he sells supplements. Because, you know, they were big in Paleolithic days… ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1066 "2015-02-04T10:21:39Z")
I am just blown away that Chris Christie and, especially, “Dr.” Rand Paul are dangerously pandering to the idiots. The one silver lining is that this “controversy” is well-timed to separate the complete morons (of whichever party) from the other likely 2016 presidential contenders (some of whom will surely prove to be morons by other means, but that’s a different story). ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1067 "2015-02-04T10:27:14Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > As **Naita** says, it comes pre-debunked. It is like trying to present a “scientific” explanation for why zebras have spots - it doesn’t matter how many bullshit explanations you present for why zebras have spots, the fact that zebras _don’t_ have spots proves them all nothing more than hot air. Exactly! Rather like asking “have you stopped beating your wife?”. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1068 "2015-02-04T14:03:03Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Has anybody heard of Dr Jack Wolfson, self-styled paleo-cardiologist & vaccine opponent? He’s been getting his five minutes of infamy [here](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/01/30/antivaccine-cardiologist-jack-wolfson-and-the-resurrection-of-false-balance-about-vaccines/). > [@JKellyMap](#): > > I am just blown away that Chris Christie and, especially, “Dr.” Rand Paul are dangerously pandering to the idiots. The one silver lining is that this “controversy” is well-timed to separate the complete morons (of whichever party) from the other likely 2016 presidential contenders There was an editorial in the Wall St. Journal yesterday blasting Christie for his “meandering meditation” on vaccines. The Journal likely is taking this principled stand not so much in favor of immunization, but as a means of marginalizing Christie as a presidential contender (he is too “liberal” for much of the Republican Party). ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1069 "2015-02-04T17:22:53Z")
A New York Times article about school vaccination rates in Mississippi (a state which would probably be considered among one of the more backwards states): > **[Mississippi, a Vaccination Leader, Stands by Its Strict Rules (Published 2015)](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/05/us/mississippi-a-leader-on-vaccination-rates-stands-by-strict-rules.html?_r=0)** > > A bill that would have created a new immunization exemption was heavily amended on Tuesday, leaving the state’s rigid requirements effectively intact. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1070 "2015-02-04T17:47:28Z")
Here is an approach > **[Fighting the Anti-Vax Movement With Lawsuits](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/02/fighting-the-anti-vax-movement-with-lawsuits/385130/)** > > Could litigation accomplish what facts haven't been able to? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1071 "2015-02-04T18:08:27Z")
Wouldn’t it be easier to deny insurance coverage to dimwitted parents who refuse to vaccinate their kid if they contract the disease?? Make a definite date-- say six years old (enough fucking time IMO to weigh the dumb options) for the vaccination rate. Then simply inform them, if their child contracts measles, CP or rubella, yer on yer own! The remote possibility of their child dying of a controllable disease PLUS a $450,000 hospital bill for the poor kid’s last ten or twelve days on the planet might just be enough stimulation to get these dummies to the doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1072 "2015-02-04T18:13:15Z")
No, it won’t, because these parents are convinced nothing terrible will happen to their special snowflake. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1073 "2015-02-04T18:19:28Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > No, it won’t, because these parents are convinced nothing terrible will happen to their special snowflake. And then the snowflake melts. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1074 "2015-02-05T00:49:46Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > No, neither he nor the other three guests agreed with her and they challenged her, but they also let her make her ridiculous arguments. She mentioned, for example, a supposed FDA whistleblower who claimed that the FDA suppressed data showing that black boys who had the MMR vaccine later had fewer incidents of autism. Of course, no one on the show was prepared to challenge her on the facts of this. I saw that. First I’ve heard of this. And nobody was there to say “Cite?” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1075 "2015-02-05T01:01:06Z")
Follow-up. Looks like this particular piece of bullshit is known: > **[On Vaccines and Autism: An Open Letter to Larry Wilmore](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/logical-take/201501/vaccines-and-autism-open-letter-larry-wilmore)** > > The Nightly Show's Larry Wilmore knows vaccines are safe...his guests don't. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1076 "2015-02-05T02:11:14Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1077 "2015-02-05T07:47:07Z")
In case it hasn’t been mentioned yet . . . Vox recently published this take-down of Wakefield’s folly: [The research linking autism to vaccines is even more bogus than you think](http://www.vox.com/2015/2/2/7965885/the-research-linking-autism-to-vaccines-is-even-more-terrible-than), Julia Belluz, Vox, February 2, 2015. Including this gem: > [@](#): > > **3) The paper is based on blood samples Wakefield drew at his kid’s birthday party** > > Even more absurdly, when the General Medical Council (the UK’s medical regulator) began to investigate Wakefield, they found that he had paid children at his son’s 10th birthday party to donate their blood for his research. That isn’t exactly a controlled and ethical setting. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1078 "2015-02-05T11:28:32Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > In case it hasn’t been mentioned yet . . . > > Vox recently published this take-down of Wakefield’s folly: > > [The research linking autism to vaccines is even more bogus than you think](http://www.vox.com/2015/2/2/7965885/the-research-linking-autism-to-vaccines-is-even-more-terrible-than), Julia Belluz, Vox, February 2, 2015. That is the worst party game ever. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1079 "2015-02-05T16:34:48Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > In case it hasn’t been mentioned yet . . . > > Vox recently published this take-down of Wakefield’s folly: > > [The research linking autism to vaccines is even more bogus than you think](http://www.vox.com/2015/2/2/7965885/the-research-linking-autism-to-vaccines-is-even-more-terrible-than), Julia Belluz, Vox, February 2, 2015. > > Including this gem: I’ll add this other gem: > [@](#): > > “For the vast majority of children, the MMR vaccine is fine,” he [Wakefield] said, “but I believe there are sufficient anxieties for a case to be made to administer the three vaccinations separately.” He also suggested the long-term safety studies of the MMR shouldn’t be trusted. > > Brian Deer’s investigation revealed that, in June 1997, he had filed a patent for a supposedly “safer” single measles vaccine. Deer writes, “Although Wakefield denied any such plans, his proposed shot, and a network of companies intended to raise venture capital for purported inventions — including ‘a replacement for attenuated viral vaccines’, commercial testing kits and what he claimed to be a possible ‘complete cure’ for autism — were set out in confidential documents.” So, how do the anti-vaxxers reconcile the fact that Wakefield, a hero to some of them, isn’t actually anti-vaccine (or, at least he wasn’t at first–not sure where he stands now), but specifically anti-MMR vaccine? And, it turns out, he’s anti-MMR vaccine because he wanted to push his own competing vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119/1080 "2015-02-05T16:50:14Z")
[And now RWs are blaming immigrants for the measles outbreak.](http://www.salon.com/2015/02/05/the_rights_measles_canard_what_a_ridiculous_new_attack_on_immigrants_says_about_gop/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-measles-outbreak-thank-you-andrew-fucking-wakefield/656119.md?page=55)