# Massive voter fraud in the US - where's the investigation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 24, 2017, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023 "2017-01-24T12:13:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/41 "2017-01-24T18:50:31Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I think the same problem is likely attached to the emoluments clause of the Constitution, and whether or not the President is complying with it. I suppose the only reasonable thing to do is have an investigation of that, too, since the lawsuit recently filed on the subject probably lacks standing. It is funny you should mention that. Clinton has foreign princes and potentates donate to her foundation and in return they got access to her as Sec’y of State but that was NOT a violation of the Emoluments Clause because SHE did not receive the gift. Trump has foreign princes and potentates stay in his hotel as a normal matter of business (so is it really a gift or payment to him?). That money is (promised to be) going to the US Treasury and there has not yet been a case that that money curried any preferential treatment but since it is not in a blind trust it is a violation of the Emoluments Clause. And my favorite - Representatives and Senators are not expected to put their assets in a blind trust. Has any foreign prince and potentate paid money to companies they own (like in stock) in the normal course of business? How is that not a violation of the Emoluments Clause when they pass laws, treaties, trade agreements, etc? PLUS all of this is OK if Congress says it is. SO WTF is an actual violation of the Emoluments Clause? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/42 "2017-01-24T18:56:30Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > There isn’t one because there wasn’t massive fraud. I keep hoping that Trump will learn not to make these idiotic claims, such as this and the crowds thing, which are so easily shown to be bogus. But it’s taking longer than I thought. I am not sure if you are waiting for Trump to stop lying or to stop being stupid, but I will agree with one thing, it will take longer than you think. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/43 "2017-01-24T19:01:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I am not sure if you are waiting for Trump to stop lying or to stop being stupid, but I will agree with one thing, it will take longer than you think. It won’t take longer than _I_ think. ---
**Author:** ![Hendrix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hendrix/32/7327_2.png) [@Hendrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hendrix)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/44 "2017-01-24T19:05:38Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Good point. I’ve personally committed dozens of murders, and no one has ever suspected. I suspect the weapon used wasn’t a knife,baton or even a gun but the ukulele.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/45 "2017-01-24T19:24:41Z")
> [@Hendrix](#): > > I suspect the weapon used wasn’t a knife,baton or even a gun but the ukulele.:rolleyes: [El Kabong!](https://i.imgflip.com/fgo0l.gif) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/46 "2017-01-24T20:34:55Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > [El Kabong!](https://i.imgflip.com/fgo0l.gif) You mean **Ukelele Ike** used [another Doper](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/member.php) as his weapon?! :eek: 😛 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/47 "2017-01-24T20:39:42Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > It won’t take longer than _I_ think. Yeah, but you think so long, You think all night long. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/48 "2017-01-24T20:49:43Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > You know, back when the whole Birther nonsense took off in 2008, I repeatedly raised the point that the problem that no one was addressing was not where Obama was born but rather there was no system in place to keep someone not-Constitutionally-eligible from becoming President because it was always someone else’s responsibility. > > I see this as a similar sort of scenario: the issue is not are illegals voting or not or if voter ID is needed or oppressive or if people are stealing absentee ballots out of mailboxes.. The question is that without requiring someone to prove their identity to vote\*, how can we possibly know if fraud is being committed. I don’t know how voting works in your neck of the woods, but in Maryland, you give them your full name, and if it’s not on the list of registered voters, you’re out of luck. And if it is, they check your name off so you can’t come back and vote a second time. (I think they may ask you to give your address, but I can’t recall for sure.) So vote fraud would have to entail voting under the name of a registered voter before they showed up. It would be noticed if the actual registered voter did show up. And sure, in each election, there are a lot of people who don’t vote, but if someone voted 100 times in 100 different precincts using the names of other registered voters, it’s hard to believe that there wouldn’t be at least a couple dozen voters who would be irate because someone had voted under their names already. I bet that would make the news. But it hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/49 "2017-01-24T21:05:35Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So vote fraud would have to entail voting under the name of a registered voter before they showed up. It would be noticed if the actual registered voter did show up. And sure, in each election, there are a lot of people who don’t vote, but if someone voted 100 times in 100 different precincts using the names of other registered voters, it’s hard to believe that there wouldn’t be at least a couple dozen voters who would be irate because someone had voted under their names already. > > I bet that would make the news. But it hasn’t. That’s exactly what happened when someone used my name to vote but no one at the poll cared (here’s your provisional ballot. move along sir) and even on this board many who deny that it happens ignore my story and those few that acknowledge it say that losing my right to vote doesn’t compare to the ten-thousand 115 year old grannies living in the bayous that don’t have a driver’s license. And it certainly did not make the news. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/50 "2017-01-24T21:05:57Z")
Somebody should start a White House petition calling for an investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/51 "2017-01-24T21:07:54Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > There isn’t one because there wasn’t massive fraud. I keep hoping that Trump will learn not to make these idiotic claims, such as this and the crowds thing, which are so easily shown to be bogus. But it’s taking longer than I thought. You’re hoping that a sociopath will stop being, so, well, sociopathic? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/52 "2017-01-24T21:47:32Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > You’re hoping that a sociopath will stop being, so, well, sociopathic? 😛 For real. If you’re happy having Trump as an out-of-control puppet for the hard right, well, okay, that’s that. But if you’re expecting him to change his spots, I wonder what you’re basing that hope on. There’s very little about Trump’s presidency I feel qualified to predict, except this: he’s gonna remain an asshole out of touch with reality. As for folks coming even slightly close to defending the claim, I want to [cite an authority on the election](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/24/recidivism-watch-spicer-uses-repeatedly-debunked-citations-for-trumps-voter-fraud-claims/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_no-name%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.1c7875eb9b20): > [@Trump's attorneys](#): > > All available evidence suggests that the 2016 general election was not tainted by fraud or mistake. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/53 "2017-01-24T21:55:53Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > That’s exactly what happened when someone used my name to vote but no one at the poll cared (here’s your provisional ballot. move along sir) and even on this board many who deny that it happens ignore my story and those few that acknowledge it say that losing my right to vote doesn’t compare to the ten-thousand 115 year old grannies living in the bayous that don’t have a driver’s license. > And it certainly did not make the news. How did you lose your right to vote? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/54 "2017-01-24T22:10:40Z")
An article from Vox on the topic: > **[Trump: this Pew study proves my voter fraud claims. Actual study: nope.](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/6/13854266/trump-pence-voter-fraud-report)** > > Trump and his team have pointed to this report to defend their baseless claims that “millions of people” voted illegally. The gist: Trump’s camp points to a 2012 Pew study as evidence to support their claim. The problem is that the Pew researchers, themselves, have repeatedly clarified that their study says **nothing** about fraudulent votes being cast – it’s about antiquated voter registration systems, which often don’t clear people from the registration rolls who have moved or died. From the article: > [@](#): > > But, contrary to what Trump and others have suggested, this does not mean that all of these registered voters actually voted. America has a multi-step system for voting: You register, then vote. The report only shows that people registered and were never taken off the rolls. They didn’t even have to register for the latest election — some of them registered for the 2008 election, died, and states just didn’t take them off their rolls. The article also cites several studies which _have_ been done on actual voter fraud, which concluded that the number of actual, credible fraud cases are extremely few. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/55 "2017-01-24T22:13:46Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > That’s exactly what happened when someone used my name to vote but no one at the poll cared (here’s your provisional ballot. move along sir) and even on this board many who deny that it happens ignore my story and those few that acknowledge it say that losing my right to vote doesn’t compare to the ten-thousand 115 year old grannies living in the bayous that don’t have a driver’s license. > And it certainly did not make the news. What are the details of your story? Did you contact the police? What did they say? What was the outcome of the investigation? If you’ve previously told us the story of this criminal activity, a link to it would be lovely. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/56 "2017-01-24T22:32:57Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > …and those few that acknowledge it say that losing my right to vote doesn’t compare to the ten-thousand 115 year old grannies living in the bayous that don’t have a driver’s license… I would be compelled to make that assessment, and wouldn’t you? Ten thousand grannies, one **St. Cad**? Unless your point is shadowed in an insinuation, that maybe those grannies don’t exist, just spectres of a Democrat conspiracy? I don’t doubt you, I’m confident that what you say happened did, in fact, happen, under the universal principle that Shit Happens. Not quite sure why you think it is germane to our conversation here. And if you make no such claim to relevance, that’s OK too. Step up to the bar and I’ll buy you a beer and listen to ten minutes of details. Twenty, if you buy the next round. Or two. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/57 "2017-01-24T22:33:43Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I don’t know how voting works in your neck of the woods, but in Maryland, you give them your full name, and if it’s not on the list of registered voters, you’re out of luck. And if it is, they check your name off so you can’t come back and vote a second time. (I think they may ask you to give your address, but I can’t recall for sure.) > > So vote fraud would have to entail voting under the name of a registered voter before they showed up. It would be noticed if the actual registered voter did show up. And sure, in each election, there are a lot of people who don’t vote, but if someone voted 100 times in 100 different precincts using the names of other registered voters, it’s hard to believe that there wouldn’t be at least a couple dozen voters who would be irate because someone had voted under their names already. > > I bet that would make the news. But it hasn’t. I was a pollwatcher in my precinct this past election. I live in Dupage County, Illinois. There were three election judges for verifying eligibility, each taking a segment of the alphabet. A voter went to the judge as determined by the initial letter of the last name. The judge found the slip in the book for that voter, asking for address if there was more than one voter of that name. The judge then detached part of the slip from the book. The voter signed the slip. The judge compared that signature to the signature in the book. Assuming the signatures matched, the voter was approved, and the judge initialed the slip before handing it to the voter. A judge further down the table checked the slip and handed the voter the ballot, which that judge initialed. Another judge was stationed by the vote counting machine; that judge assured that the ballot was properly initialed by a judge and inserted the ballot into the machine. Other judges were there to handle other tasks; the judges switched jobs every hour or two. Definitely a low-tech system, but one I think would be hard to manipulate. Oh, and if judges did find any kind of anomaly they were required to call the County Board of Elections. This did not happen while I was observing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/58 "2017-01-24T22:53:14Z")
Here in Baja Canada AKA Minnesota, the system is pretty open. If you can bring some sort of proof that Joe/Joan Jones lives at 123 Maple St, and a registered voter will attest (under penalty of perjury, mind you) that he knows you, and you are, indeed J. Jones of Maple St, you become a registered voter and you vote. Right there, right then. It works. Not because its brilliant or anything, but because massive voter fraud is an absurd conspiracy, the logistics are simply impossible. Just posting a sign saying “No Fraudulent Voting Allowed!” would probably work about as well. Just like posting a sign forbidding unicorn stampedes. The ghost story of voter fraud has haunted Republicans for years and years, it goes waaay back! I think it is anchored in their firm belief that they are, in fact, the majority of Americans, have been and continue to be. Therefore it follows that if they don’t win, some treachery is afoot. Since they are convinced of that, its an easy sell to convince them that somehow, masses of people are voting illegally. It wouldn’t be so hard to dissuade them from the second absurdity, if they were not so convinced of the first. If they didn’t already believe they were getting screwed, it would be easier to convince them that we aren’t doing it. _Très_ duh, _mais non_? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/59 "2017-01-24T23:26:04Z")
The dude is truly crazy. We are fucked, ya’ll. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/60 "2017-01-24T23:46:44Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > Oh, and if judges did find any kind of anomaly they were required to call the County Board of Elections. This did not happen while I was observing. This is the proof the Trump campaign has been looking for! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023.md?page=4)