# Massive voter fraud in the US - where's the investigation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 24, 2017, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023 "2017-01-24T12:13:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/121 "2017-01-25T17:52:41Z")
One thought as well is that the illegal votes were from non-citizens. Remember in this country you don’t have to prove you are eligible to vote, just pinkie promise you are a citizen. There are reported cases of legal (but non-citizen) residents registering because they thought they could and there is no system at all to catch these illegal votes. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/122 "2017-01-25T17:53:33Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Why are you so confident that “next to none” of these ineligible voters have actually voted? Why do you not care that Trump was elected by a process so broken that more than 1 out of every 50 votes was cast illegally? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/123 "2017-01-25T17:55:57Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > If you read his tweet carefully you will figure out what Trumps game is. > Note that he has subtly moved the goal posts from illegal voting (which is very rare) to registration of inelligable voters (which is relatively common). Dimes to donuts, he’ll do an investigation, find millions of errors in the voting roles, (next to none of which actually resulted in fraudulent votes) and declare victory. The media will try to explain the difference but will be ignored as liberally biased by his supporters who will see Trump as vindicated. Ah, well there you go. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/124 "2017-01-25T17:56:31Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Why do you not care that Trump was elected by a process so broken that more than 1 out of every 50 votes was cast illegally? For the same reason you haven’t stopped beating your wife? ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/125 "2017-01-25T18:15:09Z")
> [@simster](#): > > So lets see - Clinton and Obama are smart enough to get millions of illegal aliens to vote in california - where it wouldnt matter - in such a way that the voting history looks largely the same as it has over the past elections. > > But not smart enough to move a few hundred thousand in places it might actually make a difference - like Texas, Florida or even up in the rust belt where 10k (or less) would have made an actual difference… Double plus **this**! – also note that he needs a “fraud” bigger than the three million he lost by in order to finally beat Hillary in the PV. Here’s betting his “investigation” will steer way clear of the Rust Belt/closely contested states. In short. yet another embarrassment for the nation…excluding Trump and his orange acolytes. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/126 "2017-01-25T18:20:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > For the same reason you haven’t stopped beating your wife? :rolleyes: Not the same. I’ll repeat: If Trump is telling the truth and Democracy is so broken, why aren’t you (and the rest of the Republican voters/party, the party of Patriotism and Country) demanding a new election? If Trump is lying, why aren’t you (and the rest of the Republican voters/party, the party of Patriotism and Country) joining with Democrats in condemnation of Trump’s attack upon the integrity of our Democracy, instead of nitpicking in threads like this? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/127 "2017-01-25T18:21:18Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > If you read his tweet carefully you will figure out what Trumps game is. > Note that he has subtly moved the goal posts from illegal voting (which is very rare) to registration of inelligable voters (which is relatively common). Dimes to donuts, he’ll do an investigation, find millions of errors in the voting roles, (next to none of which actually resulted in fraudulent votes) and declare victory. The media will try to explain the difference but will be ignored as liberally biased by his supporters who will see Trump as vindicated. And then we’ll see a push for more stringent voting requirements that’ll disenfranchise a lot of people that, by some crazy coincidence, just happen to be mostly Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/128 "2017-01-25T18:28:22Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > If Trump is telling the truth and Democracy is so broken, why aren’t you (and the rest of the Republican voters/party, the party of Patriotism and Country) demanding a new election? I’ve already said explicitly that Trump’s claim about massive fraud is ridiculous. This was in a post that you quoted, so you knew I said that, and shouldn’t be asking me questions based on the premise that I think he might be telling the truth. That said, even if Trump were hypothetically saying the truth, the specific claim he’s making is that the vast majority of these illegal voters were Clinton voters, so there’s no reason to call for a new election on that basis. > [@](#): > > If Trump is lying, why aren’t you (and the rest of the Republican voters/party, the party of Patriotism and Country) joining with Democrats in condemnation of Trump’s attack upon the integrity of our Democracy, instead of nitpicking in threads like this? Trump is not “lying”, in that he believes what he’s saying, ridiculous as it is. (Not sure if you noticed this, but Trump believes a lot of things which are far removed from reality.) As for why I’m not joining Democrats in whatever it is that you think you’re doing, hey I do what interests me and you do what interests you. To me, commenting in this thread about the prospect that enough voter fraud might exist to sway extremely close elections is more interesting than more howling about Trump. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/129 "2017-01-25T18:29:30Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > One thought as well is that the illegal votes were from non-citizens. Remember in this country you don’t have to prove you are eligible to vote, just pinkie promise you are a citizen. In what states is this true? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/130 "2017-01-25T18:51:25Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > If you read his tweet carefully you will figure out what Trumps game is. > Note that he has subtly moved the goal posts from illegal voting (which is very rare) to registration of inelligable voters (which is relatively common). Dimes to donuts, he’ll do an investigation, find millions of errors in the voting roles, (next to none of which actually resulted in fraudulent votes) and declare victory. The media will try to explain the difference but will be ignored as liberally biased by his supporters who will see Trump as vindicated. A dollar says that exactly this scenario will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/131 "2017-01-25T19:13:29Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Democrats should run with this issue. DEMAND investigations and prosecutions. This seems like a good idea, actually, unless Democrats think that Trump could possibly create false evidence. Not only would it make Trump look stupid but it might use up his energy on frivolous activities instead of, say, removing environmental controls. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/132 "2017-01-25T19:30:30Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > And then we’ll see a push for more stringent voting requirements that’ll disenfranchise a lot of people that, by some crazy coincidence, just happen to be mostly Democrats. Yes, this is why Ryan et al aren’t calling out Trump’s latest mania as the absurdity it is: they hope to profit by making use of Trump’s disordered brainstorms to effect a good strong round of voter-suppression. Stringent voter ID and other barriers to voting will be raised, not-coincidentally affecting most those who might vote for Democrats. The argument is ridiculous and should not fool any but the most IQ-challenged: Trump’s supporters are saying (among other things) that every name on the voter rolls that should not be on the voter rolls _represents an actual VOTE_. This is plainly an absurd claim. For example if an elderly person dies and relatives don’t think to inform the elections board, then that person’s name remains on the rolls as eligible to vote. What Trump’s people are trying to sell is the idea that for every person who died, someone applied for ID in their name and showed up at the polls to vote in that name. I would be amazed if this happened even _once_, let alone the MILLIONS of times that Trump’s supporters are claiming it happened. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/133 "2017-01-25T20:22:54Z")
Irony - [QUOTE=CNN Breakning News email] Donald Trump’s nominee to head the Treasury department, Steven Mnuchin, [is registered to vote in two states](http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/25/politics/kfile-mnuchin-voter-registration/index.html), a CNN KFile review of paperwork obtained through open records requests in New York and California show. While it is illegal to cast ballots in multiple states, it is not illegal to be registered in two states at the same time. In a tweet Wednesday, the president called for an investigation into voter fraud, including whether citizens are registered to vote in two states. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![rejemy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@rejemy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rejemy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/134 "2017-01-25T20:41:15Z")
My prediction: In a few weeks Trump will call a press conference, at which he will stand in front of a large stack of crates with “FRAUDULENT VOTES” stenciled on the side of them. He’ll declare his team found 10 million fraudulent votes, and then spend a solid 30 minutes whining about how unfair it was that the press didn’t believe his claims, and how there are going to be some big changes in voting coming up to make sure this doesn’t happen again. Nobody will be allowed to inspect the crates. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/135 "2017-01-25T20:43:18Z")
> [@rejemy](#): > > Nobody will be allowed to inspect the crates. Or ever vote again. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/136 "2017-01-25T20:46:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In what states is this true? Every State and DC considering it is a [Federal Law](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/18/us/justices-reject-arizona-voting-law-requiring-proof-of-citizenship.html). > [@](#): > > The law, the National Voter Registration Act of 1993, allows voters to register using a federal form that asks, “Are you a citizen of the United States?” Prospective voters must check a box for yes or no, and they must sign the form, swearing under the penalty of perjury that they are citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/137 "2017-01-25T20:51:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Why are you so confident that “next to none” of these ineligible voters have actually voted? F-P: I have a deal to make for you. There’s a crime you can commit, with virtually zero chance of having any effect. Like literally, nobody else who’s ever committed the crime has gotten anything for doing so. If you’re caught, you do prison time. You probably won’t be caught if you keep your trap shut, but you might be, because people review voter rolls. If you don’t keep your trap shut (say, because you’re the sort of idiot that commits a crime like this) (NOTE TO MODS: GENERIC “YOU” IN PARENTHETICAL NOTE ABOVE, NOT CALLING F-P AN IDIOT), you’re likely enough to be caught. Sound like a deal? It’s a TERRIBLE deal. Talk about crime that doesn’t pay! You’d have to be a real moron to do it. And if you’re dumb enough to do it? You’re probably dumb enough to blab about it. Consider how people who rob liquor stores post selfies on Facebook of themselves holding the cash they got; how people brag to buddies about sexually assaulting women when they don’t realize their mike is live; how people boast about keying a neighbor’s car by uploading a picture of their vandalism to a messageboard, complete with GPS metadata (true story). Criminals tend to be idiots. It beggars belief that there are significant numbers of people dumb enough to commit such a profitless crime but smart enough not to brag about it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/138 "2017-01-25T20:55:06Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Every State and DC considering it is a [Federal Law](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/18/us/justices-reject-arizona-voting-law-requiring-proof-of-citizenship.html). It is? All you have to do is “pinkie-swear”? ---
**Author:** ![HumbleThinker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@HumbleThinker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumbleThinker)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/139 "2017-01-25T20:56:53Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Every State and DC considering it is a [Federal Law](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/18/us/justices-reject-arizona-voting-law-requiring-proof-of-citizenship.html). People aren’t automatically registered just by filling out that form. They are simply pledging that they are eligible to be registered. Each state’s registrar’s office confirms whether that pledge is true or not, mailing out a confirmation or rejection letter in a timely manner. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/140 "2017-01-25T21:03:12Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Yes, this is why Ryan et al aren’t calling out Trump’s latest mania as the absurdity it is: they hope to profit by making use of Trump’s disordered brainstorms to effect a good strong round of voter-suppression. Stringent voter ID and other barriers to voting will be raised, not-coincidentally affecting most those who might vote for Democrats. > > The argument is ridiculous and should not fool any but the most IQ-challenged: Trump’s supporters are saying (among other things) that every name on the voter rolls that should not be on the voter rolls _represents an actual VOTE_. This is plainly an absurd claim. > > For example if an elderly person dies and relatives don’t think to inform the elections board, then that person’s name remains on the rolls as eligible to vote. What Trump’s people are trying to sell is the idea that for every person who died, someone applied for ID in their name and showed up at the polls to vote in that name. > > I would be amazed if this happened even _once_, let alone the MILLIONS of times that Trump’s supporters are claiming it happened. What about cases where our now-deceased senior citizen was registered to vote by mail? No one needs to apply for ID or show up anywhere. Three ballots came to our vote-fraudster’s house: one for themselves and one each for Mom and Dad, who lived with them right up until their death. Trump is such an evil guy, they could easily justify in their own minds filling out Mom and Dad’s ballots and sending them in too. After all, they were lifelong Dems too, and would’ve wept if they could’ve seen what a mockery Trump was making of this country. It’s a little white lie to stop a great evil. You don’t think something like that scenario played itself out even once? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023.md?page=8)