# Massive voter fraud in the US - where's the investigation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 24, 2017, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023 "2017-01-24T12:13:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/161 "2017-01-25T22:09:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Sounds an awful lot like a pinkie promise. Pinky promises don’t court (pun intended) possible felony prosecution, no matter how small the chance. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/162 "2017-01-25T22:31:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Conversely, it would appear that these efforts only involved legal immigrants. (Though FWIW I think illegal immigrants are a lot less likely than legal immigrants to be involved in voter fraud. IME, they tend to be very nervous about interacting with the system, although this seems be fading a lot of late.) Maybe for a lot of them that’s true, but certainly not all of them. [Here is an interview by Gina Rodriguez](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLLt-a6dI_0&t=3m22s)\* where she asked Obama this question: > [@](#): > > Many of the millennials, DREAMers, undocumented citizens - and I call them citizens because they contribute to this country - are fearful of voting, so if I vote, will Immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us? Why would she ask about “DREAMers” and “undocumented citizens” voting? Is it possible that some not-insignificant number of them do actually vote? She seemed to think it was an important-enough issue that she wanted to ask the President about it. These are exactly the sort of people that aren’t supposed to be allowed to vote, but I (and apparently Gina Rodriguez) suspect some of them do. Yes, they should be fucking fearful of voting, because they’re committing voter fraud when they do! The reality is most of them will not be punished for it. - I suspect someone will misunderstand this and think that I’m claiming Obama was encouraging illegals to vote, because that claim is what originally made this video famous. I don’t think that. I think it was a shitty thing for Gina Rodriguez to do, and she put Obama in an awkward position. He certainly didn’t go out of his way to discourage illegals from voting, but he handled the awkward question rather deftly, carefully parsing his words to not explicitly encourage illegals to vote, while also trying not to offend part of his base. He quickly steered the conversation back to legal voters who have illegal immigrant family members. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/163 "2017-01-25T22:43:42Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I think I’ve addressed this. To the extent that you have, you appear to have conceded that bragging about voting is a really common thing, so I’m happy to leave it there. > [@](#): > > No difference. > > We’re not discussing what you think is the true story about ACORN. Or even what I think is the true story about ACORN. > > You’re trying to prove from the ACORN story that Fox would jump all over a story of some individual instance of voter fraud. I’m pointing out that you can’t prove this, because the ACORN story, as presented by Fox, involved something much more significant than that. Whether Fox was right or wrong about that is irrelevant. You’re missing the point. The rightwing is so desperate to prove the myth of widespread voter fraud that they went with a totally bogus story, a story that was pretty obviously bogus to folks paying attention (waves hand). If there were actual, real evidence, how much happier would they be? It’s like suggesting that UFO conspiracy theorists would, presented with the glowing severed head of a genuine alien, shrug and say, “Meh, I’d rather find a working spacecraft.” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/164 "2017-01-25T22:44:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Maybe for a lot of them that’s true, but certainly not all of them. [Here is an interview by Gina Rodriguez](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLLt-a6dI_0&t=3m22s)\* where she asked Obama this question: > > Why would she ask about “DREAMers” and “undocumented citizens” voting? Is it possible that some not-insignificant number of them do actually vote? She seemed to think it was an important-enough issue that she wanted to ask the President about it. These are exactly the sort of people that aren’t supposed to be allowed to vote, but I (and apparently Gina Rodriguez) suspect some of them do. Yes, they should be fucking fearful of voting, because they’re committing voter fraud when they do! The reality is most of them will not be punished for it. > > - I suspect someone will misunderstand this and think that I’m claiming Obama was encouraging illegals to vote, because that claim is what originally made this video famous. I don’t think that. I think it was a shitty thing for Gina Rodriguez to do, and she put Obama in an awkward position. He certainly didn’t go out of his way to discourage illegals from voting, but he handled the awkward question rather deftly, carefully parsing his words to not explicitly encourage illegals to vote, while also trying not to offend part of his base. He quickly steered the conversation back to legal voters who have illegal immigrant family members. Non-citizens cannot vote in federal elections. Local elections are up to the states. Now, pretty much all the states do not allow non-citizens to vote, but maryland allows localities to allow non-citizens to vote, and there is nothing stopping other states and localities from doing the same. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/165 "2017-01-25T22:47:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > To the extent that you have, you appear to have conceded that bragging about voting is a really common thing, so I’m happy to leave it there. I didn’t. I suggested if there are such people it’s among those who share very mundane things, and is not comparable to the type of bragging you were comparing to (e.g. robbing liquor stores). > [@](#): > > You’re missing the point. The rightwing is so desperate to prove the myth of widespread voter fraud that they went with a totally bogus story, a story that was pretty obviously bogus to folks paying attention (waves hand). But the point is that once you accept the premise that the story isn’t bogus - which is obviously what they’re expecting their viewers to do - the story is a Big Story, for the reasons I mentioned. Your suggested stories are nothing stories even if they’re accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/166 "2017-01-25T22:59:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Maybe for a lot of them that’s true, but certainly not all of them. [Here is an interview by Gina Rodriguez](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLLt-a6dI_0&t=3m22s)\* where she asked Obama this question: Wait, what? I know she’s Jane the Virgin, and Majo Tenorio, but only because of Wikipedia. I’m not clear what her expertise on voter fraud issues is. Or do you just implicitly trust her in everything she says about politics, which is why her weird question to Obama is worth bringing up here? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/167 "2017-01-25T23:01:08Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I didn’t. I suggested if there are such people it’s among those who share very mundane things, and is not comparable to the type of bragging you were comparing to (e.g. robbing liquor stores). It’s bragging, which is the point. People brag about it. You seem to be suggesting that the sort of people for whom illegal voting woudl be worth doing wouldn’t think it worth bragging about, even though people who vote legally brag, and people who commit other crimes brag. > [@](#): > > But the point is that once you accept the premise that the story isn’t bogus - which is obviously what they’re expecting their viewers to do - the story is a Big Story, for the reasons I mentioned. Your suggested stories are nothing stories even if they’re accurate. If I show you other tiny little voter fraud stories that Breitbart and Fox News trumpeted, will you believe me? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/168 "2017-01-25T23:08:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > …Your suggested stories are nothing stories even if they’re accurate. And so would remain if not exploited by the Forces of Darkness to advance their agenda. Kinda think that was his point. Just guessing here, could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/169 "2017-01-25T23:11:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s bragging, which is the point. People brag about it. You seem to be suggesting that the sort of people for whom illegal voting woudl be worth doing wouldn’t think it worth bragging about, even though people who vote legally brag, and people who commit other crimes brag. Pretty much, yeah. I’m suggesting that the risk/reward for bragging about something where you’re increasing your minimal risk of being caught by bragging and have nothing to show for it is different than people who have zero risk or people who have bigger rewards. > [@](#): > > If I show you other tiny little voter fraud stories that Breitbart and Fox News trumpeted, will you believe me? Comparable to your suggested stories, yes. (Though I’m taking your word that these outlets don’t actually run stories about one off-incidents of fraud. I’m assuming they don’t but if you’re correct that they run other minor stories of that sort, then you need evidence that they haven’t also run your suggested stories. I myself am not very familiar with either of these outlets.) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/170 "2017-01-25T23:13:12Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Non-citizens cannot vote in federal elections. > > Local elections are up to the states. > > Now, pretty much all the states do not allow non-citizens to vote, but maryland allows localities to allow non-citizens to vote, and there is nothing stopping other states and localities from doing the same. So your position is that she was just talking about DREAMers in Maryland, only voting in state elections, and just chose not to clarify that point? Seems like a stretch, even for you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/171 "2017-01-25T23:19:54Z")
You miss the point, or perhaps evade is a better word. Many places want to extend minor voting privileges as a gesture of inclusion, a recognition that they are members in good standing of a community, and can be afforded respect for their opinion in local matters. Something wrong with that? ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/172 "2017-01-26T22:53:47Z")
That investigation Dear Misleader tweeted about? Cancelled: > [@](#): > > White House walks back ban on import tax, says it is just an option, and cancels executive order signing for investigation into voter fraud. From [here](https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/824741140528295936). Remember Conservative friends, you elected him, you own him. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/173 "2017-01-26T23:09:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So your position is that she was just talking about DREAMers in Maryland, only voting in state elections, and just chose not to clarify that point? > > Seems like a stretch, even for you. Actually, didn’t watch the vid, don’t watch vids at work. I don’t know who this person is, or why her question is vitally important. Was just responding to what you said, when you said “These are exactly the sort of people that aren’t supposed to be allowed to vote” I was pointing out that there are in fact times when non-citizens can vote. Personally, I feel the whole no taxation without representation ideal that we like to espouse should mean that resident aliens should be able to vote at least in local elections, but it’s up to the states, and that is a debate for a different time and thread. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/174 "2017-01-26T23:27:45Z")
Probably repeating what some other poster said…I am a liberal Democrat, and I welcome an investigation into massive voter fraud IF it is linked with an investigation into massive voter suppression and gerrymandering. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/175 "2017-01-27T00:23:42Z")
crucible wrote: “I welcome an investigation into massive voter fraud IF it is linked with an investigation into massive voter suppression and gerrymandering.” And Russian interference, and Comey. Basically, I’m for a bi-partisan commission on electoral integrity empowered to investigate and recommend legislation at federal and state levels. Bottom line, if non-citizens are voting (in any manner not approved by local law), I’d want that stopped. But that is, I’d bet diamonds to doughnuts, a minor problem compared to actual or possible process tampering by (foreign) state or corporate actors. Come on, righties. It may have been the Russians this time for your guy. Next time it may be the Chinese for ours. In fact, if trump seeks reelection in 2020 (assuming that free elections are still a thing then), you may see _massive_ foreign interference in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/176 "2017-01-27T01:13:25Z")
Oh man, I am _so_ fucked. I moved to a different state last year, and registered and voted in the new state. I’m positive I was still on the voter rolls in the old state. Why? _Because there in no mechanism for me to notify my previous state election commission that I have moved._ Now the president says that is voter fraud. Then to top it off, I went and signed a petition on [whitehouse.gov](http://whitehouse.gov) asking Trump to share his tax returns. Now they know my email address! I’ll be off to Gitmo any day now. I await the police. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/177 "2017-01-27T03:00:36Z")
If there really and truly was voter fraud, maybe the best thing to do is to have the whole election over again. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_Hey_Paula)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/178 "2017-01-27T03:50:11Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Oh man, I am _so_ fucked. I moved to a different state last year, and registered and voted in the new state. I’m positive I was still on the voter rolls in the old state. Why? _Because there in no mechanism for me to notify my previous state election commission that I have moved._ Now the president says that is voter fraud. Then to top it off, I went and signed a petition on [whitehouse.gov](http://whitehouse.gov) asking Trump to share his tax returns. Now they know my email address! I’ll be off to Gitmo any day now. > > I await the police. I guess I’m in trouble too. My in-laws died in 2012 and 2013, and I was in charge of clearing out their house and dealing with most of the paperwork regarding their estate. At one point I contacted the county registrar of voters by email, asking how to remove them from the voter rolls, but the steps were complicated and I never followed though, I had too much on my plate. For all I know they’re still registered and their ghosts have been showing up and ghostly-voting! And their ghosts would have definitely ghostly-voted Democrat. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/179 "2017-01-27T03:51:56Z")
That’s the spirit! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023/180 "2017-01-27T03:54:50Z")
So far, the investigation has turned up several Trump family members, Trump White House staff and appointees. Good job, Cheeto! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/massive-voter-fraud-in-the-us-wheres-the-investigation/778023.md?page=10)