# Master and Commander- Very cool movie! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 23, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496 "2005-02-23T06:16:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/1 "2005-02-23T06:16:05Z")
I finally saw this film and I really enjoyed it. I’m curious about the historical accuracy- I know Hollywood doesn’t have the finest track record about it. I’ve also heard that it is based off a series of novels, and now I’m REALLY interested in reading those, if the film is any indication of what the novels are like. Were midshipmen really that young? I know they started young-ish, but the midshipman given command of the gun crew at the end (and delivering a subsequent ass-kicking with a blazing pistol) was a boy :eek: I know they had boys carrying powder charges, and used them for various sundry tasks on a warship, but as officers? that young?! ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/2 "2005-02-23T06:29:07Z")
I just rewatched the movie because I finished reading the second of the two books on which it’s based. I highly recommend the books (by Patrick O’Brian, incidentally). They’re fun, funny, and exciting - a very good read. They’re a series of 20, which sounds intimidating, but they’re pretty light reading and not terribly long. O’Brian is known for doing a lot of research and making his books as historically accurate as he can. He often describes actual, historical battles in the books. The film is a fairly faithful adaptation of the books, I thought. The main difference is that in the book, they were chasing an American ship rather than a French one. At the time, Britain was at war with both America and France, and the books mainly focus on France as the enemy, so I don’t think that was a huge change. The endings are quite different, too, but the book’s ending wouldn’t have made a good movie ending, so that didn’t bother me, either. As for the young midshipman, I believe that’s accurate. I haven’t done any research myself, but O’Brian mentions midshipmen of 12 or so, and I believe even younger. The Horatio Hornblower books by CS Forester (also highly recommended, if you like O’Brian) agree. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/3 "2005-02-23T06:54:53Z")
Yeah, midshipmen were teens, and that is definitely accurate. They were being groomed for war. Eventually they’d be the captains and you wanted them to start learning young, so they’d be prepared. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/4 "2005-02-23T09:13:01Z")
My only disappointment was that they didn’t manage to fit Mrs. Villiers in. Although I wouldn’t want to take any screen time away from the lovely chase film that was made…basically, I’m just upset that I didn’t get to see Paul Bettany play Dr. Maturin’s geeky infatuation with the woman :). (One of my favorite lines from him in the books was his referring to a “black ribbon about [her] thorax.”) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/5 "2005-02-23T13:35:45Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > the books mainly focus on France as the enemy, Although _Fortune of War_ features the USS Constitution and the USS Chesapeake. My favorite scene in the series is the escape from Boston. ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/6 "2005-02-23T14:58:11Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > My only disappointment was that they didn’t manage to fit Mrs. Villiers in. Although I wouldn’t want to take any screen time away from the lovely chase film that was made…basically, I’m just upset that I didn’t get to see Paul Bettany play Dr. Maturin’s geeky infatuation with the woman :). (One of my favorite lines from him in the books was his referring to a “black ribbon about [her] thorax.”) I like to joke that they did get Diana in… when Jack was writing his letter he had a miniature of a dark-haired woman on his desk, and Sophie’s a peaches’n’cream blonde… ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/7 "2005-02-23T15:12:33Z")
Great, **Incubus**! Having been a fan of the novels for more than 20 years, I can say that you’re in for a treat; they aren’t just “shoot em-board em-sink em,” but actually fully realized novels, worthy of the title “literature.” The first book is a little slow going, as O’Brian spends a lot of time in the rigging (which he correctly assumed most of his audience had no knowledge of); but they will sweep you along after that. O’Brian has a great dry sense of humour, and has done exhaustive research on his subject. Vitually every ship he mentions actually existed in the Royal Navy (or other navies of the time), and even real historical figures appear from time to time. Jack Aubrey himself is mostly modelled on a remarkable Scotsman, Admiral Lord Cochrane, who was a hot-headed hero who took a big Spanish figate with a small sloop called the “Speedy.” Although a national hero for his military actions, Cochrane fell foul of political interests, and even did a stint in prison–but to say anymore might constitute “spoilage!” So keep in mind that while some of the exploits of the protagonists seem larger than life, in fact, O’Brian was very careful not to “paint the lily, or gild refined gold.” Here’s two good links about the Royal Navy of Nelson’s time: > **[HMS](https://sites.google.com/site/historicalmaritimesociety/)** > > HMSThe Historical Maritime Society [http://www.napoleonguide.com/navy\_rnpay.htm](http://www.napoleonguide.com/navy_rnpay.htm) Very appropriate that you’re going to be enjoying these books during the 200th anniversary year of Trafalgar! The movie was very good overall with the historic references and the physics of cannons, cannonballs, etc. I did catch one tiny error (a real nitpick): at one point, Aubrey refers to one of his men (i _think_ it was his cox’n Bonden) as “Mr. Bonden”–an honorific used for warrant-officers (or officers of equal or lesser rank/seniority to the speaker). ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/8 "2005-02-23T15:38:49Z")
As movies based on good novels go _Master and Commander_ is much less of an insult to the source than most. My main disappointment was that they did not choose a good _ugly_ actor for the Maturin role (surely there are enough of those even in Hollywood?). The mechanics of the ships were very well done IMO (except for some course changes apparently without changing sail trim). Look at _Acheron_ setting her studdingsails! The lack of room on a ship of that size was also reasonable well conveyed. The books is based mainly on _The Far Side of the World_, the tenth book of [the series](http://www.jack-aubrey-stephen-maturin-serie.de/) (shameless plug for a page I made - English-language titles in the left column). BTW if you are interested in the novels the first book (Master and Commander) is as good an entry point as any; personally I consider _Desolation Island_ the best as a purly seafaring story, and _The Reverse of the Medal/the Letter of Marque/the Thirteen-gun Salute_ the best naval-social-political narrative in the series. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/9 "2005-02-23T15:52:08Z")
I fully expected this movie to suck. I don’t know why. I hadn’t heard anything about it and have never read any of the novels. I figured it was a typical hollywood pirate movie. (Pirates of the Carribean, I’m looking at you.) Boy was I wrong. There are no women in the whole movie. None. There are two types of scenes in the movie that stick out: 1. Killing/Chasing/Surviving storms. 2. Drinking. It also appeared to be historically accurate or at least plausible. Why hollywood doesn’t do three dozen movies a year like this I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/10 "2005-02-23T15:56:29Z")
Fun movie. At first I was afraid they would cock up one of my literary pleasures and joy. I’ve read the books three times. I’ve given out copies of the first one to many friends trying to get others hooked. Even if they did cherry pick a few of the best scenes and lines from the entire canon, I liked the movie. The boy who had his arm shot off is referred to as Lord Blakeny (or something like that) he was the son of a peer. It was common at the time to send young gentlemen from prominate familys off to serve as midshipmen under a friends’ command. A nice touch when Aubrey gave him the book to read about Lord Adm Nelson, the photograph shows Nelson after he had lost his arm. Go read the books, there is a companion book that is a glossary of terms O’Brian used. Even an old sailor like me found enlightening. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/11 "2005-02-23T16:09:55Z")
[QUOTE=Debaser] There are no women in the whole movie. None. [QUOTE] Not quite :D. Remember the women the crew of Sophie ran into when they were getting supplies? I assumed they were prostitutes, but they could have been selling other wares. Though they weren’t big characters in the film :D. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/12 "2005-02-23T16:13:15Z")
Although it seems strange to pick a guy who played a [hobbit](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0101710/) to play the prize fighing Coxswain Bonden. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/13 "2005-02-23T16:15:50Z")
What’s amazing about this movie is that somewhere along on the way, a slow but remarkable realization begins to dawn on you, and that is that _M&C_ is, quite simply, the greatest sea-faring movie ever made. Period. Better than the various Bounty versions. Or the assorted Titanics. Better than any Errol Flynn swashbuckler. Better than _Captains Courageous_ or _Lifeboat_ or _The Sea Wolf_ or _The Cruel Sea_. It is rare when a contemporary movie can lay claim as the finest example of its particular genre in film history, but this film can. It’s epic without being empty-headed, it’s exciting without being all about the action, it’s well-acted, well-written, and attentive to many of the details of sea life that other films ignore, distort, or get wrong. Plus it’s gorgeous, fun, and genuinely emotional. In short, a masterpiece. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/14 "2005-02-23T16:19:11Z")
As good as the movie was, the books are a thousand times better! Also, check your library for the unabridged books on tape. They’re read by Patrick Tull who does an astounding job creating characterization with his voice. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/15 "2005-02-23T16:35:29Z")
> [@tschild](#): > > As movies based on good novels go _Master and Commander_ is much less of an insult to the source than most. > : : : > The books is based mainly on _The Far Side of the World_, the tenth book of [the series](http://www.jack-aubrey-stephen-maturin-serie.de/) (shameless plug for a page I made - English-language titles in the left column). It almost seems as if _The Far Side of the World_ was the only book in the series that the screenwriters \* didn’t \* read carefully. They used incidents or throwaway lines from several of the other books including \* HMS Surprise \* and \* Desolation Island \* and the final battle combined the disguising of the ship which they did in several books including, I think, The Wine Dark Sea, and the retelling of the attack on the Cacafuego (sp?) from the first book. I was a little disappointed in the movie because I kept seeing it as disjointed bits of scenes cut and pasted from the series. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/16 "2005-02-23T17:38:47Z")
The friend I saw this movie with had to step outside in the middle for a while because she was sea-sick. Really. I think that counts as a thumbs up in the realism stakes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/17 "2005-02-23T18:43:31Z")
If you are ever down south here in San Diego, you can see (and, I believe, tour) the ship that was used in the movie. It has been rechristened _Surprise_ in honor of the appearance. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/18 "2005-02-23T18:58:06Z")
Indeed. Here is a link. [http://www.tallshiprose.org/](http://www.tallshiprose.org/) ---
**Author:** ![HelloKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecccb3/32.png) [@HelloKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelloKitty)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/19 "2005-02-23T18:59:02Z")
I also was very surprised at how much I loved this movie, as I am usually bored to tears by seafaring tales. Although, I do like the Horatio Hornblower series that was on A&E and Pirates of the Carrib. (ok, it _might_ have something to do with the easy-to-look-at actors, but I digress) One of my favorite things about this movie was the ending…which I won’t spoil, or even put in a spoiler tag. Those who have seen it know what I mean–the ending was PERFECT! ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496/20 "2005-02-23T19:12:32Z")
I agree that _Master and Commander_ is probably the best seafaring movie I’ve ever seen. I loved all the Horatio Hornblower books so I plan on reading Patrick O’Brian soon. Given all this, what I’m amazed at is the most common complaint I’ve heard about the movie: “But it’s so _boring_!” I’m wondering if I saw the same movie. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander-very-cool-movie/291496.md?page=2)