# Master and Commander **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 30, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355 "2003-10-30T01:31:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Forbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@Forbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forbin)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/21 "2003-10-31T03:45:23Z")
I watch movies like this in my own (strange) way. If they say, “Reef the Main!”, that main’sl had better damned well be reefed in the next scene. I hate it when they don’t do that. All too often sailing movies don’t get the sailing right. Scaliwags! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/22 "2003-10-31T04:18:28Z")
One teeny little detail I saw in the trailer that made me think this movie will be good was this. Crow/Aubrey is peering into the fog/smoke, looking for another ship. He sees a sudden flash in there and drops down, pulling another sailor with him. _Then_ you hear a bang, and a shot goes whizzing by overhead. Too often movies make the flare and the sound simultaneous, but if the attacking vessel is far enough off there will be just enough time to duck, or flinch, or whatever. I saw this happen myself when I saw 105’s being fired during a performance of the 1812 Overture. I could see them being fired, and would try to brace myself, but the noise was still so loud it was shocking. If the moviemakers have been that careful, then I’ll be it will be a hell of a day at sea, sir. ---
**Author:** ![utkik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e8c25b/32.png) [@utkik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/utkik)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/23 "2003-10-31T12:14:57Z")
I’m still not fully sold on the casting either. Crowe does have a lot of presence, and is burly enough to be a good Jack, but in my mind, Jack was bigger (especially when angry) and had much more presence. I suppose Weir could do some clever camera work a la Peter Jackson to change that. Paul Bettany as Maturin though? I’m not sure at all. We’re talking about a sharpset, yellow faced man ravaged by a hard life, not a fresh faced gadabout that apperared in the trailer. It’ll also be interesting to see who’ll come out in the film as the more intelligent of the two, and will any of the subtleties of the series be borne out. But at least Fox are making a big effort with it and not just coming up with any old crap, and rumour has it the film will stay as close to the books as possible, so at least that’s the lesser of the two weevils. utkik:: ducking away from groans and catcalls ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/24 "2003-10-31T18:00:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GMRyujin \* > \*\*Anyone know anything about the filming? Is the ship real, CG, a big set? Cause it LOOKS good. \*\* IIRC, there are actually _two_ frigates, one full-scale and ready to sail, and another (or 3/4 of a frigate) attached to the water tank in Baja. IRT fidelity… IIRC (again), it’s pretty much the story from the novel “_The Far Side Of The World_”, with just the lightest touch of “_Master And Commander_” thrown in to introduce the characters to people not familiar with the work of POB. The major change, though, is to change the nationality of the “bad guy.” The French were not particularly noted for their powerful frigates, while the young United States at that time had really _only_ its powerful frigates about which to boast. For anyone familiar with the time, it’s much more desperate & tense to be sending an old, small, and worn-out frigate after one of those frightful American monsters than some other navy’s ship. Remember that in those days, Admiralty had given specific instructions to the captains of His Majesties Navy to avoid single-ship action against American frigates by anything lighter than a third-rated ship of the line (typically, 64 guns). I think Crowe _can_ do a good “Lucky” jack, but _will_ he? Paul Bettany is just mis-cast, though. As others have said: too pretty, too tall, too clean. I think Kevin J. O’Connor ([Beni](http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0120616/4), in “_The Mummy_”) would’ve done well in the role. ---
**Author:** ![Jplacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85f322/32.png) [@Jplacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jplacer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/25 "2003-11-01T05:44:29Z")
Is it just me, or does title "Master and Commander " sound like a video game? ---
**Author:** ![Intaglio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71e660/32.png) [@Intaglio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intaglio)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/26 "2003-11-01T13:52:07Z")
The casting is what is getting me to watch this movie. I read the books, we’ll see how it does. ---
**Author:** ![Intaglio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71e660/32.png) [@Intaglio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intaglio)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/27 "2003-11-01T13:52:11Z")
The casting is what is getting me to watch this movie. I read the books, we’ll see how it does. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/28 "2003-11-01T21:03:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hail Ants \* > \*\*It does look neat, and I do like Russell Crowe. But everytime I see ads for it I keep thinking of the episode of South Park that made fun of him… > > **"Come 'on, Tuggah!!"** \*\* I thought the same thing. “Wow, he really is fighting 'round the world” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/29 "2003-11-01T21:21:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tranquilis \* > \*\* For anyone familiar with the time, it’s much more desperate & tense to be sending an old, small, and worn-out frigate after one of those frightful American monsters than some other navy’s ship. \*\* “she was rather old, and although she had been very much strengthened, almost rebuilt,in the Cadiz yard, it would never, never do to take her across to meet the heavy Americans” -The Ionian Mission ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/30 "2003-11-01T23:59:34Z")
Ah. Thank you, I havn’t read that one yet. ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/31 "2003-11-02T04:19:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jplacer \* > \*\*Is it just me, or does title "Master and Commander " sound like a video game? \*\* I mentioned it to **Zyada** the other night, and she thought it sounded like a B&D movie. Of course I told her the British navy didn’t do bondage … but we sure as Hell have discipline! ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/32 "2003-11-02T08:57:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by utkik \* > \*\*I’m still not fully sold on the casting either. Crowe does have a lot of presence, and is burly enough to be a good Jack, but in my mind, Jack was bigger (especially when angry) and had much more presence. I suppose Weir could do some clever camera work a la Peter Jackson to change that. \*\* In an interview with Crowe it was pointed out that Jack was bigger than Crowe and he was asked why he didn’t bulk up for the role. His response was, “Have you seen how _small_ the stairs on the ship are? If I were any bigger, I’d never be able to use them.” It looks like it could be a great film, let’s hope that it is. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/33 "2003-11-04T18:30:53Z")
I am _so_ excited to see this movie! Yeah, it’s got Russell Crowe (mmm, eye candy . . . ), but by fortuitous coincidence I’ve just recently been turned on to O’Brien’s books and I love them. I’m working my way through them fairly steadily (currently on _The Ionian Mission_), though I have to read a different book between each O’Brien volume, or I get too bogged down in them. I’m wondering if I should jump ahead and read _The Far Side of The World_ before seeing the movie . . . Nah. If any of you haven’t read them and like a whopping good adventure novel, I highly recommend them. You don’t need to know jack (ha!) about sailing; lord knows I don’t. The books are funny and perceptive and exciting. I _hope_ the movie lives up to them, though I won’t be surprised if it doesn’t – it’s a tall order. But I’ll be going into the theater prepared to like the movie. But I do NOT expect Maturin’s part to be as important as he is in the books; this looks like your basic “War at Sea” movie, and that side of things was never Maturin’s forte. Arguably, giving him a pivotal role in a movie structured around a sea chase and sea battles would be unfaithful to his character. No, if the movie has the plot it appears to have from the trailer, it’s Lucky Jack Aubrey’s movie from start to finish. I hope they include the part about taking the enemy’s cannon ball, writing “postage paid” on it, ramming it into a cannon and firing it back. 😃 One thing that’s surprised me about O’Brien, since I so adore these books, is that he was apparently a right bastard IRL. Any of you heard about that? ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/34 "2003-11-04T19:14:03Z")
I intend to see it on opening weekend, something I never do, but considering it is opening the same weekend as Matrix, I don’t think I have to worry about teenage geeks kicking the back of my seat while they are on their cell phones talking to friends about the movie they are watching. Master and Commander got a rave review in [www.hollywoodreporter.com](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com) and they don’t gush that often. And Crowe may, or may not, be an asshole in everyday life - but so are a lot of other actors. I am going to see the film, not voting for Russell Crowe to be Homecoming King. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/35 "2003-11-04T20:06:29Z")
I found the perfect Marturin. Rob LaBelle. [http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/crowley/518/](http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/crowley/518/) > **[Scifi.com](https://www.syfy.com/scifi/firstwave/profiles/index.html)** > > Visit Syfy.com What they _really_ look like, from _Treason’s Harbour_: Marturin: ‘A nasty looking crocodile,’ said Giuseppe, in little more than a whisper Jack:‘The great fat yellow-haired post-captain with that sparkling thing in his hat?’ \_ ‘Just so. He is very fond of the opera.’ ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/36 "2003-11-04T23:32:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\* You don’t need to know jack (ha!) about sailing; lord knows I don’t. The books are funny and perceptive and exciting. \*\* I read one/year, and I’m only up through _Mauritius Command_. I’ve noticed, though, that while I also know diddly about sailing, and there are passages that are 90% incomprehensible, somehow the gist of it soaks in through osmosis. I love O’Brian’s incredibly dry humor – I often do a sort of double-take, realizing that the passage I just read was a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Curate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Curate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Curate)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/37 "2003-11-04T23:45:56Z")
Jodi – DO read them in order. I read a couple out of order the first time through and lost some of the subtle story arcs. About Maturin – I read something today that gave me pause. In the “Making of the Movie” book there’s a photo of the actor as Stephen and the caption reads “Note his fashionable forward brushed ‘Napoleon’ haircut.” There are of course two things (maybe three) wrong with this: 1) “Fashion” and “Maturin” aren’t two words that ought to be used in the same sentence. 2) Of the possible fashion statements Stephen might have been inclined to make, I can’t imagine his interest in copying anything related to Napoleon. Two hundred years from now will they make a movie about a British surgeon in WWII with a fashionable Hitler mustache? 3) This one might be debatable, but as I recall Stephen didn’t go in for haircuts, did he? Didn’t he just shave his head or keep it very closely clipped and wear a wig? Sadly, I’m afraid this post proves I don’t really have much of a life… ---
**Author:** ![trupa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@trupa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trupa)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/38 "2003-11-04T23:57:20Z")
I agree the fellow cast for Maturin is far to handsome, if one has read the book. The particular problem I have, is that my brain, in its weird and incomprehensible ways, insists on putting in the image of “Dr. Julian Bashir” from DS 9 when I read the books, which is just as badly miscast. Now when I finally beat it down, and have this picture of a wizened and ugly little man, along comes this picture that will screw me up again. Ugh! :smack: At least Crowe is roughly in the same ballpark as Jack Aubry (which my brain kept seeing as a young Rex Harrison, of _My Fair Lady_ fame 😕 ) Can’t wait to see the movie though… _(if only O’Brian could write some more books though…sigh…)_ ---
**Author:** ![Curate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Curate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Curate)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/39 "2003-11-05T01:51:03Z")
I too am sorry that O’Brian can’t write any more books, but at least they ended well. The fact that they were left doing interesting things and about to go on to do more interesting things has leant them a pleasant timelessness. There were a few story arcs left up in the air and I sometimes muse on how they might have worked out – nothing ever seems to have worked out in a straight and predictable fashion in the novels. As I recall, the first time Garrison Keillor stopped writing the Lake Wobegone stories he just left all the familiar citizens of the town in the middle of everyday life, and that’s the same sense I had at the end of “Blue at the Mizzen.” It seems to me that there were a few places in the series where they might have ended gracefully. The end of “The Surgeon’s Mate” is one and the end of “The Wine Dark Sea” is another. Another downside of new books might have been the deaths of a few more long term characters. “The Hundred Days” is still the most difficult book for me to reread. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/40 "2003-11-05T02:45:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Curate \* > \*\* > Another downside of new books might have been the deaths of a few more long term characters. “The Hundred Days” is still the most difficult book for me to reread. \*\* I have often wondered if he did that because of his nearing death. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355.md?page=3)