# Master and Commander **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 30, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355 "2003-10-30T01:31:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/41 "2003-11-05T04:38:41Z")
With this movie being a period piece, a seafaring adventure epic, with a major star, could it become an Academy Award contender? ---
**Author:** ![Curate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Curate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Curate)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/42 "2003-11-05T16:48:52Z")
carnivorousplant – A few years back on the O’Brian list someone speculated that the deaths in THD were at least partly the result of critics who complained that no one important ever died in O’Brian’s novels. The first deaths were at least foreshadowed in that mention had been made in earlier books of the dangerous location where the accident happened and the driving habits of the person involved. The last major death really seemed more like a random swipe of fate. Speaking of events “back home,” I get the impression that the movie isn’t going to show us much of the home life they leave behind. I’d have liked to have seen how Sophie and Diana were portrayed. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/43 "2003-11-06T00:56:24Z")
Thanks, Curate. That person did seen a bad choice, though. ---
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/44 "2003-11-06T01:09:47Z")
Early reviews look promising: The Hollywood Reporter, Variety, and Rolling Stone liked it: [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/MasterandCommanderTheFarSideoftheWorld-1127359/](http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/MasterandCommanderTheFarSideoftheWorld-1127359/) The problem with Master and Commander’s Oscar chances is that Return of the King has the adventure epic angle covered, while Cold Mountain has the period piece angle covered. So Master and Commander may slip through the cracks unless its a big popular success. ---
**Author:** ![jinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jinty)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/45 "2003-11-06T13:51:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjk \* > \*\*Of course I told her the British navy didn’t do bondage … \*\* “The only traditions of the Royal Navy are rum, sodomy and the lash.” - Winston Churchill. Sounds like B&D to me 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/46 "2003-11-06T18:53:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Curate \* > \*\*carnivorousplant – A few years back on the O’Brian list someone speculated that the deaths in THD were at least partly the result of critics who complained that no one important ever died in O’Brian’s novels. The first deaths were at least foreshadowed in that mention had been made in earlier books of the dangerous location where the accident happened and the driving habits of the person involved. The last major death really seemed more like a random swipe of fate. > \*\* Could you please, in a spoiler box, remind me who the second major death was? I remember that the first was Diana …but I don’t remember the second. Was it Bonden? ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/47 "2003-11-06T19:59:02Z")
I’ve only read one O’Brien book, and that was “The Golden Ocean” (well, listened to it on audiobooks, to be precise) and loved it way more than I expected I would. I thought this movie looked interesting, but it wasn’t until I’d seen the trailer several times that I learned it was based on an O’Brien book. Then I was utterly ramped up for it. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/48 "2003-11-06T21:14:26Z")
Parts of the film apparently use the [HMS _Rose_](http://www.tallshiprose.org/), which was actually [toured by Patrick O’Brian](http://www.tallshiprose.org/obrian/). The _Rose_ is a little older than the fictional _Surprise_, but probably the closest thing afloat today. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/49 "2003-11-06T21:46:44Z")
Rocketeer: You are correct on both counts. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/50 "2003-11-06T21:55:01Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Jodi_ > One thing that’s surprised me about O’Brien, since I so adore these books, is that he was apparently a right bastard IRL. Any of you heard about that? From [this interview.](http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Musee/3740/Idler/vIIn5.html) > [@](#): > > He wanted his readers see him as a gentleman from wealth, and this, except for a brief time in the family history, simply was not the case. Later in life, he did not want anyone to know that he had built his house in France with his own hands. He had become a social and intellectual snob, and he felt that this was demeaning. But most of all, O’Brian wanted to leave behind his tragic first marriage. Just before World War II, he walked out on his family in circumstances that were about as bad as possible. He left his wife broke, with a five-year-old son and a dying three-year-old daughter. He had found himself in a situation he couldn’t handle, and he walked away from it. He was 25 at the time, and 25 year olds are notorious for making poor decisions. His real name was Richard Patrick Russ. He cut all ties to his real (and relatively poor) family early in life, including eight siblings, probably around the time he walked out on his wife and kids. He later married the daughter of a succesful barrister. It’s not clear from the interview if he ever divorced his first wife, though. Although I assume that, if he were a bigamist, that would have come up in the interview as well. When he died, he had not seen his son in more than thirty years. Incidentally, he published his first novel, under his real name, when he was fourteen. Whatever his other failings, he was a heckuva writer. ---
**Author:** ![Curate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Curate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Curate)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/51 "2003-11-06T23:51:21Z")
Rocketeer – there was one other person involved in the first instance of death you put in your spoiler box. It’s arguable whether that person was a major character or not, but certainly someone whose departure wasn’t quite so lamented. The more I learn about O’Brian the more the wisdom of separating the artist from his work looks in importance. Apparently when the recent (last few years, I think) biography came out there were quite a few upset fans. It seems to me that no one could write about such an introspective person as Maturin without being introspective himself and it makes one wonder what kinds of interior monologues O’Brian must have had as he considered his earlier life. It may be significant that Maturin is depicted as having had a painful life prior to time we meet him at the beginning of the books. I recall one person on the O’Brian list who suggested that Diana might have been the closest personification of the author in the books. Her faults are presented without much excuse and her motives are almost always self-serving. It’s not too hard to draw a parallel between her style of parenting and O’Brian’s. Still, to get back to the movie, I don’t see it as being the vehicle for much deep characterization. Lots of cannon fire though… ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/52 "2003-11-07T03:38:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*I found the perfect Marturin. Rob LaBelle. > > [http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/crowley/518/](http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/crowley/518/) > > [http://www.scifi.com/firstwave/profiles/index.html](http://www.scifi.com/firstwave/profiles/index.html) > \*\* Nah. Still not sallow and ill-favored enough. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/53 "2003-11-07T14:10:12Z")
I dunno, Tranquilis, he’s a pretty rum looking cove with two day’s beard. -or- Hey, you never saw this guy track tar across a newly holy stoned deck! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/54 "2003-11-07T19:15:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baker \* > \*\*One teeny little detail I saw in the trailer that made me think this movie will be good was this. Crow/Aubrey is peering into the fog/smoke, looking for another ship. He sees a sudden flash in there and drops down, pulling another sailor with him. \*\* Jack _ducks_??? I don’t THINK so! One image of him I retained from the books was of a man who was steadfast and unafraid even though cannonballs and splinters were flying around. I even seem to remember him admonishing another sailor who ducked when a cannonball flew fairly close. (Don’t ask me for a cite though – not sure I could find it in any reasonable amount of time.) Jeezopete. I guess I’ll just have to look at this as an Age of Sail movie, with only peripheral connection to the O’Brian books. \<\\> ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/55 "2003-11-07T19:27:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*Hey, you never saw this guy track tar across a newly holy stoned deck! > > 🙂 \*\* He better not do that on _my_ deck, or I’ll introduce him to one of a long list of old naval traditions! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/56 "2003-11-07T19:55:09Z")
He does that on _Jack’s_ or rather, Bonden’s deck. 🙂 Jack ordered the crew to lie down when they were going to be raked. I also remember his ordering a Mid down, but I don’t remember who. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/57 "2003-11-07T20:53:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjk \* > \*\*I mentioned it to **Zyada** the other night, and she thought it sounded like a B&D movie. Of course I told her the British navy didn’t do bondage … but we sure as Hell have discipline! \*\* They don’t show any “rum, sodomy and the lash” in the previews. But you can still hope. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/58 "2003-11-07T21:42:11Z")
Oh, yes, I remember now, the first death also involved Sophie’s mother, Mrs. Williams, and her fast-living friend Good riddance, I say. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/59 "2003-11-15T01:43:38Z")
Saw the movie today. Anyone else? It ROCKS. Crowe and Bettany inhabit their roles; it’s all very authentic; the cannons firing on the ship are fearsome. Crowe’s Aubrey is a great leader, bold, brave, temperamental. Bettany’s Stephen wants nothing more than to explore and this leads to some fighting between them. The enclosed world of the ship is very well done; nice performances from all, some just young boys. The musical duets create some good relief from the battles, deaths, and wounds. I took my elderly mom along and she liked it too. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355/60 "2003-11-15T01:52:32Z")
One thing: We had to leave before the ending credits had finished, so I couldn’t check on all the music. There was a nice string classical bit used when they arrived at the islands, and I know I’ve heard it before. In fact, it was used in some tv commercial but I can’t remember which one. Can anyone help? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/210355.md?page=4)