# Master and Commander **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 6, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217 "2009-12-06T19:24:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/21 "2009-12-07T03:53:17Z")
I don’t know if it’s still there, but for a while they kept the ship that was used in the movie at the Maritime Museum in San Diego. It was very cool to go on board, meet a guy who had a bit part in the movie, take pics, go down below, and so on. If it’s still there and you ever get a chance to see it, go for it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/22 "2009-12-07T03:56:01Z")
HOw the hell can you have Sam Panda if you don’t have Sophie? 🙂 Hiding the Black girl in the cable tier has got to be one of the coolest things Jack ever did. Is that why he was disrated and served before the mast? ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/23 "2009-12-07T04:15:25Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Yet throughout it all, I never get the sense that I have seen a traditional movie composed of different acts. Instead, I come back to the analogy of a snap shot in time. I think the only other movie that I ever experienced this with was Pulp Fiction, and that was only with the first viewing. I’m also a big fan of the movie and I’ve read all the books several times (my favorite is _H.M.S. Surprise_), but I came in just to address this minor point. _Master and Commander_ was a traditional three-act movie. A short first act culminating in the initiating event of Jack Aubrey deciding to pursue the Acheron instead of head back home, a LONG second act, and a third act beginning with Stephen spotting the Acheron off the coast of the Galapagos Islands, and the climax of the final battle. ---
**Author:** ![TheBoltEater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheBoltEater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoltEater)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/24 "2009-12-07T06:04:58Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > I don’t know if it’s still there, but for a while they kept the ship that was used in the movie at the Maritime Museum in San Diego. It was very cool to go on board, meet a guy who had a bit part in the movie, take pics, go down below, and so on. > > If it’s still there and you ever get a chance to see it, go for it. Yep, still there. I just went on it a couple months ago - very cool. HMS Surprise ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/25 "2009-12-07T15:32:48Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I rather liked Gregory Peck’s [Captain Horatio Hornblower R.N.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043379/) 🙂 I’m only partway through Forester’s books, but when does Hornblower become a nurse? 😉 More seriously, what happens when I’m done with O’Brien and Forester? How does life remain worth living? One recommendation: David Feintuch’s Seafort saga sets Hornblower as space opera. It’s a bit more emotional, and targeted at a younger audience, but if you can’t get enough of the British Navy, give it a try. One question: Somewhere on the Internet, someone must have made cutaway diagrams of the _Surprise_, showing where everything is aboard ship. Have any of you ever seen such a thing? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/26 "2009-12-07T15:43:37Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Since they used the first and tenth novels from the twenty book series, I figured it was a one shot deal. > By golly, they didn’t have Diana at all, did they? > My favorite scene is the escape from Boston, and I can’t see that without Diana. > “I suppose we shall leave sometime today.” 🙂 “No one could call you a light woman, Diana.” ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/27 "2009-12-07T15:54:12Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > I agree with all the comments, you really felt that these were men of the 18th century. The way that Jack marvels about the “Amazing modern age we live in” was a good example of this. We sort of laugh about the 19th century man marvelling about a new sailing ship, but the reality was that it really was an amazing breakthrough worth gawking over. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/28 "2009-12-07T16:51:19Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > I agree with all the comments, you really felt that these were men of the 18th century. The one minor quibble that I had with the movie, and it is really minor, is the sailors cowering at the sound of the humpbacks singing. Would a group of 1810’s seamen, many of whom may have either worked as whalers or knew someone who did, actually react that way? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/29 "2009-12-07T17:37:24Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > The one minor quibble that I had with the movie, and it is really minor, is the sailors cowering at the sound of the humpbacks singing. Would a group of 1810’s seamen, many of whom may have either worked as whalers or knew someone who did, actually react that way? I think this was when they thought that were carrying a “Jonah”. They weren’t scared of the whales as whales, IMHO, but they were on a string of terrible bad luck and were letting their superstitions get the better of them. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/30 "2009-12-07T17:55:11Z")
In my opinion, all of the qualities that made the movie remarkable were directly attributable to the source material. Patrick O’Brien was a hell of a writer, and I’m blown away that anyone could find his books long-winded or unreadable. I’ve known some people who found the writing style difficult initially, but that’s the worst you could say. Just my 2 cents. ---
**Author:** ![Sweetums](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Sweetums](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweetums)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/31 "2009-12-07T18:33:24Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > I don’t know if it’s still there, but for a while they kept the ship that was used in the movie at the Maritime Museum in San Diego. It was very cool to go on board, meet a guy who had a bit part in the movie, take pics, go down below, and so on. > > If it’s still there and you ever get a chance to see it, go for it. ``` The *Surprise* was originally constructed as the *Rose*. A friend of mine was a professional tall ship sailor and a crew member on the *Rose* at the time. They actually kept several of the professional crew arround to sail the ship while the actors stood around a looked good, so he actually got a bit part in the movie. You can see him front and center watching the trepanning scene. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/32 "2009-12-07T18:42:19Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > More seriously, what happens when I’m done with O’Brien and Forester? How does life remain worth living? > > One recommendation: David Feintuch’s Seafort saga sets Hornblower as space opera. It’s a bit more emotional, and targeted at a younger audience, but if you can’t get enough of the British Navy, give it a try. There’s Bernard Cornwell’s Richard Sharpe series, historical fiction about a British Army officer during the Napoleonic wars. For more Hornblower-in-space, there’s David Weber’s Honor Harrington books. And I like Naomi Novik’s Temeraire series, which is alternate history set during the Napoleonic Wars, and is kind of like a mashup of Hornblower and Dragonriders of Pern. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/33 "2009-12-07T19:20:22Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > You’re right, there are no actual plot elements from Desolation Island in the movie. Though the movie borrows from several novels. > > In the FSotW novel they were pursuing the Norfolk, an American frigate sent to destroy British whalers in the Pacific. It was set during the war of 1812. Interestingly, in the novel they never actually see the Norfolk, until they come upon its wrecked, sunken hull. > > The Archeron from the movie had elements of the Cacafuego (M&C), the Norfolk from FSotW, and the Waakzaamheid from Desolation Island. Much less _Cacafuego_, much more _Waakzaamheid_. _Desolation Island_ has Aubrey in temporary command of 50-gun _HMS Leopard_, a ship almost as detested by her crew (for her shoddy construction) as by the increasingly hostile Americans (for having – before Aubrey’s captaincy – fired on an American frigate that allegedly had deserters among its crew). In the South Atlantic, _HMS Leopard_, after losing many of its crew to a shipborne plague, encounters a 74-gun Dutch ship of the line that immediately gives chase. Outmanned and outgunned, Aubrey attempts to outrun the much larger ship. Sailing at top speed through fog and heavy seas, and despite employing every navigational stratagem in Aubrey’s considerable arsenal, _Waakzaamheid_ reappears in _Leopard’s_ wake with depressing regularity. The whole notion of the enemy ship as a phantom, the two captains staring at one another through their telescopes, and a certain conversation with Maturin (“What is it with this man?”) are all lifted from _Desolation Island_. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/34 "2009-12-07T19:49:01Z")
Great movie; I should see it again. The cast, cinematography, dialogue and costumes are all first-rate. _Naval History_ magazine had an article not long after it came out, explaining how the production crew did a laser survey of the USS _Constitution_, digitized it and used it as the template for the SFX of the French frigate _Acheron_. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/35 "2009-12-07T20:09:59Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > Much less _Cacafuego_, much more _Waakzaamheid_. > > _Desolation Island_ has Aubrey in temporary command of 50-gun _HMS Leopard_, a ship almost as detested by her crew (for her shoddy construction) as by the increasingly hostile Americans (for having – before Aubrey’s captaincy – fired on an American frigate that allegedly had deserters among its crew). In the South Atlantic, _HMS Leopard_, after losing many of its crew to a shipborne plague, encounters a 74-gun Dutch ship of the line that immediately gives chase. Outmanned and outgunned, Aubrey attempts to outrun the much larger ship. Sailing at top speed through fog and heavy seas, and despite employing every navigational stratagem in Aubrey’s considerable arsenal, _Waakzaamheid_ reappears in _Leopard’s_ wake with depressing regularity. The whole notion of the enemy ship as a phantom, the two captains staring at one another through their telescopes, and a certain conversation with Maturin (“What is it with this man?”) are all lifted from _Desolation Island_. Have I killed some relative of his in battle? His boy, God forbid? The final battle between the two ships was much more _Cacafuego_ than _Waakzaamheid though._ ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/36 "2009-12-07T20:19:58Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > The final battle between the two ships was much more _Cacafuego_ than _Waakzaamheid though._ Yeah, after burning through the pages, the final fate of the \*Waakzaamheid \* was like hitting a brick wall. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/37 "2009-12-07T20:30:42Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Have I killed some relative of his in battle? His boy, God forbid? > > The final battle between the two ships was much more _Cacafuego_ than _Waakzaamheid though._ Good point. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/38 "2009-12-07T20:33:21Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > a seemingly accurate depiction of \*\*17th \*\*century sailing life > [@Icerigger](#): > > I agree with all the comments, you really felt that these were men of the \*\*18th \*\*century. > [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > We sort of laugh about the \*\*19th \*\*century man marvelling about a new sailing ship Got it on the 3rd try. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/39 "2009-12-07T20:44:31Z")
I have to put in a plug for the recorded books. Simple put, Master and Commander is the best recorded book ever. The book itself is a little tough to wade through (for me anyway) due to the very authentic detail and language but the recorded book, read by Patrick Kelly (IIRC) gets it exactly right. Go forth and listen! he movie was OK but they just can’t capture the richness of the books in a two hour film. ---
**Author:** ![McGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f4b2a3/32.png) [@McGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McGeek)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217/40 "2009-12-07T20:49:27Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > …But this movie holds me at perfect attention and literally glued to the screen… Really? “literally”? Please post a photo of your body physically attached to the screen - this I gotta see. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/master-and-commander/520217.md?page=3)