# Mastermind of Achille Lauro hijacking arrested in Iraq **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 16, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994 "2003-04-16T01:58:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/21 "2003-04-16T05:35:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamerlane \* > **Abu Abbas heads ( or headed ) one of three splinters of the PLF, which splintered off of the PFLP-GC, which splintered off the PFLP, which splintered off the PLO.** Was the PFLP Habash’s group? It was the Communist one, right? I always confuse it with the other group…the National Front for the Liberation of Palestine. ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/22 "2003-04-16T05:46:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\* \>\> Do you honestly think that that the administration of justice should be subordinated to public opinion? > > So if legally jurisdiction is for Italy I guess you favor handing him over to Italy without further delay? No questions asked? Just give him to Italy tomorrow? \*\* I’d have no problem with his serving out his sentence in Italy, though I don’t know what you mean by “legal jurisdiction” in this context. Both nations have laws under which he could be prosecuted (though only Italy has already done so), so unless there is some treaty between the US and Italy governing such matters, I don’t believe one could rightfully say that one country has “legal jurisdiction” rather than the other. In any case I don’t see how that relates to issues of justice vs. public opinion; my point was that he shouldn’t be allowed a more lenient sentence simply because that would supposedly please Muslims around the world. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/23 "2003-04-16T05:50:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > Was the PFLP Habash’s group? It was the Communist one, right? I always confuse it with the other group…the National Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Yeah, it’s like Monty Python’s _The Life of Brian_ all over again. But you’ve got the right one, though there are/were actually several vaguely Marxist-Leninist Palestinian groups, including the PFLP’s various offshoots and splinters ( another one that I didn’t mention above is the DFLP ). I think Habash himself ( if he’s still alive, I’m not sure ) retired/stepped down as head of the group in 2000. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/24 "2003-04-16T06:03:29Z")
I think he’s still alive and in Damascus right now. As far as I knew, the PFLP is pretty moribund right now, generally. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/25 "2003-04-16T06:43:16Z")
500 odd people were hi-jacked on that ship in October 1985. The Egyptians negotiated with the terrorists and the passengers were set free - but poor Klinghoffer had been murdered by this stage. By any yardstick it must have been a harrowing ordeal for the poor passengers. Certainly, hostage taking was the order of the day at the time - consider the myriad of hostages who were taken during the Beirut Civil War. On all sides. Nonetheless, after the Egyptians allowed the PLF terrorists to essentially fly free, their jetliner was intercepted by a US Navy fighter and forced to land in Sicily. Apparently it was a real standoff… US soldiers and Italian soldiers were pointing guns at each other in a heated arguement over who had jurisdiction. Eventually, some calls were made between Ronald Reagan and Benito Craxi and the PLF terrorists were tried in Italy. But inexplicably, a loop hole allowed Abu Abbas, the ringleader, to walk free on some technicality regarding evidence. He fled to Syria, and then on to Iraq. Along with Abu Nidal, the REAL name quoted by Oliver North during the Iran-Contra hearings (not OBL as myth would have it), they ended up being the little darlings of Palestinian Terrorism within Iraq’s cadre - but Abu Nidal died rather violently last year and the official reason given by the Saddam regime was suicide but Nidal’s supporters claim it was an open execution. Perhaps **Tamerlane** would be so kind as to give us the conclusive details on that aspect please? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/26 "2003-04-16T06:49:15Z")
Seems to me that if the U.S. dropped charges, and he’s already been tried in abstentia in Italy, turning him over to the Italian authorities would be a no-brainer of a decision. (Gosh, good thing it wasn’t a _French_ ship, or the Bushistas would really have a fit! 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/27 "2003-04-16T07:06:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*I believe it was just that one man. > > So I see no one is in favor of any kind of clemency. Everybody wants the guy sentenced to the max. But in the USA most people are not getting life for murder. And remorse is definitely taken into account when sentencing. So I guess you want this guy treated _worse_ than what the normal sentence would be? \*\* Most murders don’t involve that much planning, they don’t involve the hijacking of an entire ship, and they don’t involve the execution of a helpless individual. Since his crime was worse then most murders why shouldn’t his sentence reflect that? > [@](#): > > \*\* > So if legally jurisdiction is for Italy I guess you favor handing him over to Italy without further delay? No questions asked? Just give him to Italy tomorrow? \*\* I’m in favor of handing him over to Italy. Let him spend the rest of his life in an Italian jail. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/28 "2003-04-16T07:14:50Z")
Yep. Off to Italy with him! ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/29 "2003-04-16T14:02:07Z")
BTW, folks, not to excuse Abbas, but while he _planned_ the hijacking of the Achille Lauro, he did not actually take part in it. The hijacking was carried out by members of his group. In other words, _he’s_ not the person who shot Mr. Klinghoffer and then dumped him into the sea. I doubt that specific piece of barbarous behavior was actually part of the plan. I agree with others who’ve said we should turn him over to Italy. No muss, no fuss, reasonable justice. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/30 "2003-04-16T14:15:59Z")
It seems he was acquitted for lack of evidence in Italy and then he was tried again. It seems they don’t have the rule against double jeopardy there and they tried him a second time under pressure from the US but by then he had already fled. The reason he got away is that he was found not guilty in the first trial. The seciond trial was done in absentia and mostly to please the USA. He would probably be entitled to a new trial and I think what he has done and said during the last 15 years _should_ be taken into account in his sentencing. If he renounced terrorism and said it was a mistake it should be taken as a mitigating circumstance. If he continued to support terrorists then it should be an aggravating factor. If he continued his terrorists activities from Irak it also brings up the point that Saddam Hussein was, indeed, sheltering terrorists. Does anyone know what he has been up to the last few years? Is he accused of supporting terrorists lately? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/31 "2003-04-16T14:27:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Boo Boo Foo \* > Along with Abu Nidal, the REAL name quoted by Oliver North during the Iran-Contra hearings (not OBL as myth would have it), they ended up being the little darlings of Palestinian Terrorism within Iraq’s cadre - but Abu Nidal died rather violently last year and the official reason given by the Saddam regime was suicide but Nidal’s supporters claim it was an open execution. > > Perhaps **Tamerlane** would be so kind as to give us the conclusive details on that aspect please? Not much to tell, unless some new info comes to light. What I had read was that he apparently was suffering from cancer and the first Iraqi report suggested he committed suicide for this reason. Then they said he committed suicide after being confronted with evidence that he had sneaked into the country with a forged passport. _Then_ they said that he’d been caught with evidence of collusion with Iraqi opposition figures in Damascus and faced with proof he killed himself. Another more conspiratorial ( but also possible ) claim was that Yasser Arafat, in collusion with Abu Abbas and with permission from Saddam Hussein, finally succeeded in getting him bumped off. Whatever it was, its an _very_ good bet Iraqi security directly snuffed him because for whatever the reason ( and some of the abobe are plauisible ) they decided he was a liability and felt it was time to remove him from the picture. He was always one of Iraq’s pets ( his FRC splintered off from Fatah specifically with Iraq’s backing ), but he was an exceedingly dangerous one and increasingly less useful. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/32 "2003-04-16T14:49:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > Does anyone know what he has been up to the last few years? Is he accused of supporting terrorists lately? Abu Abbas? His faction ( an ally of Arafat’s Fatah ) supposedly renounced terrorism after the Oslo agreement. How much truth there is to that, I have no idea. For a little detail on his group, you can try here for starters: [http://www.ict.org.il/inter\_ter/orgdet.cfm?orgid=29](http://www.ict.org.il/inter_ter/orgdet.cfm?orgid=29) - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Rame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Mac\_Rame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Rame)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/33 "2003-04-16T16:40:32Z")
It seems that the PLO wants to have a say in the matter. According to them, Abu Abbas is protected by the Oslo accords. As such, he has no right to be arrested. As the the [washington times](http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20030416-081402-1619r.htm) states: > [@](#): > > Palestinian Authority Cabinet minister Saeb Erekat told reporters that arresting the PLF leader, often called Abu el-Abbas or Abu Abbas, in Iraq was “a violation of the peace accords signed in Washington between Israel and the Palestinians in 1995.” > “The Palestinian leadership demands that the United States administration release as soon as possible Abu el-Abbas, because the U.S. doesn’t have the right to arrest and detain him,” he said. Sounds like the diplomatic wrangling could get interesting here. Should he be extradited and tried in the US, it could weaken future negotiating positions on Israeli/Palestinian peace accords. OTOH, should the US “convince” him to take a seat on a plane destined for Italy (who was not a signatory of the Oslo accords), things could be much cleaner. From the little I’ve seen this seems the better action to take. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/34 "2003-04-16T16:53:32Z")
I hope he decides to take that option too, seeing how he’s remorseful and all. The US is very interested in what he’s been up to the past few years. The suspicion is that that the PLF has been active in Baghdad, recruiting, training, making bombs, that sort of thing, and exporting it all directly to the the PLF arm in the West Bank, which officially doesn’t exist. But that’s the suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/35 "2003-04-16T17:19:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\* If he renounced terrorism and said it was a mistake it should be taken as a mitigating circumstance. If he continued to support terrorists then it should be an aggravating factor. > > \*\* So 20 years instead of life? I hope you don’t think that mitigating circumstances means he should be excused. Marc ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/36 "2003-04-16T17:24:56Z")
Boy this is a great move by the PA, standing up for the freedom of a convicted terrorist who is convicted by a European court. Get him to Italy. I think the weakening re Israeli/PA negotiations is to the PA side. European public support has been critical for their cause. This makes them a little less sympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/37 "2003-04-16T17:32:36Z")
\>\> So 20 years instead of life? I hope you don’t think that mitigating circumstances means he should be excused. I do not have an opinion one way or another except that justice be done and I get the impression locking him up for life without further questions might not be serving justice at all. He was tried in Italy and found not guilty due to insufficient evidence and set free. Due to American pressure he was tried in absentia a second time and found guilty but I am very troubled by this. I am very troubled by ignoring the double jeopardy rule. I am very troubled the second trial was done in absentia and I suspect the Italians probably thought giving him life in prison would please the USA while having no practical consequences since the guy had disappeared anyway. It now seems the Oslo accords may be a bar to any further proceedings or punishment. I just hope the USA is not going to play the bully and just hold on to him without a good legal reason. “because I can” is not a good legal reason for me. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/38 "2003-04-16T17:42:52Z")
2 hours ago: [Abu Abbas not covered by 1995 immunity deal: US official](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030416/pl_afp/iraq_war_us_abbas_reax_030416151408) > [@](#): > > The clause in question, contained an interim peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians, deals only with the detention and prosecution of certain people in the jurisdiction of the Jewish state and the Palestinian Authority (news - web sites), the official told AFP on condition of anonymity. > > “It does not apply to the legal status of persons detained in a third country,” the official said of Abbas, the mastermind of the 1985 hijacking of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro who was capture by US forces in Baghdad on Monday. > > The Palestinian leadership has complained that the arrest of Abbas, also known as Mohammed Abbas, is illegal under the 1995 accord and called for his release. > > That accord says that members of the Palestine Liberation Organization (news - web sites) (PLO) cannot be arrested or tried for acts committed before September 1993. Abbas’ Palestine Liberation Front (PLF) is part of the PLO. > > But the agreement, signed in Washington on September 28, 1995, is a bilateral Israeli-Palestinian accord and does not set out any US specific commitment to immunity for acts against US citizens. So he might stay here for a while. ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/39 "2003-04-16T17:51:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \*He was tried in Italy and found not guilty due to insufficient evidence and set free. Due to American pressure he was tried in absentia a second time and found guilty but I am very troubled by this. I am very troubled by ignoring the double jeopardy rule. I am very troubled the second trial was done in absentia and I suspect the Italians probably thought giving him life in prison would please the USA while having no practical consequences since the guy had disappeared anyway. It now seems the Oslo accords may be a bar to any further proceedings or punishment. > > I just hope the USA is not going to play the bully and just hold on to him without a good legal reason. “because I can” is not a good legal reason for me. \*\* Actually, he was not tried twice, he was released without trial, which set off the fight between the US and Italy. He was then tried in absentia and convicted, tried in absentia of course because he did not voluntarily return to Italy to face the music. No double jeopardy issue, not that double jeopardy means squat in Italy, since I’m guessing you’re referring to double jeopardy as outlined in the US constitution. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994/40 "2003-04-16T20:41:39Z")
\>\> Actually, he was not tried twice, he was released without trial, which set off the fight between the US and Italy Yup, I have confirmed this. [Italy to Request Extradition of Abu Abbas](http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=4B979487-6D67-490A-B3092A5C9209E505) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mastermind-of-achille-lauro-hijacking-arrested-in-iraq/168994.md?page=3)