# Master's degrees - part of the H1B scam? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 6, 2015, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700 "2015-10-06T11:00:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/41 "2015-10-07T01:35:40Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > But these guys are better qualified than you. That’s the trade off. If you won’t do what it takes to get the experience and qualifications, you are less likely to get hired than the people who do. No, they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/42 "2015-10-07T02:14:24Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > No, they aren’t. You think they just slept through grad school? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/43 "2015-10-07T02:31:53Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > No, they aren’t. Oh, well I’m convinced. :rolleyes: If this is how you sell yourself in interviews, it’s not surprising you have trouble finding a job. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/44 "2015-10-07T06:05:40Z")
I can speak to the question of hiring newly minted engineers and scientists from both the perspective of a (former) entry-level engineer and (later) engineering hiring manager from direct experience. As a junior level engineer, finding any job, much less a decent one, can be difficult even in a job-rich market, because a recent graduate, and especially someone with only an undergraduate degree and a couple of summer internships doesn’t really have any practical experience to point to in order to assess competence in the work environment. The academic record counts for something, of course, but nearly anyone with basic competence in math can manage to carry a B average in any of the engineering disciplines without exercising great disicpline, and even straight-A students are often not a guarantee of being a productive employee; they may be great at reading and regurgitating, but when presented with a more open-ended problem that requires judgment and experimentation they may well just not have the aptitude for engineering work. In my early career, I found it difficult to get the first couple of jobs despite a resume of practical work experience and on-campus interships in some of the most prestigious departments. Employers cared little about my experience with atmospheric physics, ordnance design and application, or writing STEM educational software in C/C++ and Java. Nor were they terribly impressed by being on the winning team of a human powered vehicle competition or working at a security company designing alarm system installations. Actually, the biggest hit on my resume was three years spent working in kitchens, at that only by a former Navy cook become engineering manager by way of a finance degree. Employers were most interested in what I could demonstrated in the way of motivation and interest in their particular niche. I understood this much later, as a hiring manager, because a new grad will bring almost nothing in terms of practical experience to a position, and most will end up either failing to perform or leaving of their own volition because they lack the aptitude or interest, and the investment of time, mentoring, and toleration for inevitable errors in a junior hire is rarely paid back by performance or longevity. I went through four jobs (one contract, two ‘permanent’, and one at an engineering start up) in the first four years of my career before really getting to a point of knowing what I was good at, what I was interested in, and what really made sense to pursue from a career standpoint versus just a job. As a junior engineer, I also remember that I had expectations that I know realize were completely absurd. I expected to have a “big corporate job” designing major mechanical assemblies and critical mechanisms, and instead found that I was implementing engineering changes written by other people and doing a lot of legwork. In retrospect, this was great experience because I got to see other peoples’ failures and corrections without being exposed to criticism myself, and that helped educate me to make good design decisions to the point that I wasn’t responsible for any major failures in my career. As a hiring manager, I would much prefer to either hire someone with at least a couple of years in one position (and some basic skills and experience that I can assess in an interview environment), or barring that, someone with at least enough gumption to pursue a graduate degree _and_ show value by demonstrating proficiency in their project or area of emphasis. In fact, querying candidates on their grad work and potential applications or areas tangential to their project or studies provides an excellent measure of whether the candidate will actually be interested in the technical challenges or just wants to ‘turn the crank’. I’ve seen so many Ph.D.s who were either burned out or just muddled their way through without actually learning much outside of their narrow field of research that I almost won’t look at a Ph.D. resume unless they also have some practical work experience to go along with it. Does that seem unfair? Well, if so, that’s by design. Life and work aren’t fair, either, and you have to learn to just suck it up and persevere, or otherwise go work in an easier field like window washing. I was put on a politicized project fairly early in my career, and although I did exactly the right thing technically by identifying and elevating a major technical flaw that could have resulted in catastrophic failures I was roundly castigated and assured that I would not advance in that company. I was laid off from the start-up because they were running out of money and I was their most expensive engineer (at a round four years of experience), notwithstanding that I was also by far the highest and fastest producer with several clients asking for me specifically to work on their projects. I was fired from another company because of a personal disagreement with a disagreeable idiot who happened to be golfing pals with my boss’ boss. Other incidences of unfair treatment are too numerous to list. But I’ve also had the opportunity to be mentored by some really great engineers and technicians, and I’ve collected a lot of experience from a fairly wide variety of industries and technical disciplines that has served me very, very well in my current role, to the point that people will come ask me random questions about esoteric subjects in the belief–occasionally validated–that I have some special insight into slag production in solid propellant motors, the compositional differences between titantium produced in the Ukraine from that produced in Australia or Canada, or how geomagnetic storms will affect telemetry and tracking systems. (For the record, I wrote a monologue on the first that has never quite made it to being an AIAA submission; I have some good references on the second; and I have no idea on the third, nor do I believe anyone else does, either, based on experience.) Instead of complaining about the lack of fairness, one should focus upon the challenges and the way they offer an opportunity to learn, _especially_ at the beginning of a career where such failures and their impacts are generally small and won’t follow you through the rest of your working life. Believe me, you don’t want to be the guy responsible for designing a critical braking mechanism, or doing complex regression testing on sophisticated mission critical software, or responsible for a satellite break-over operation with only a few short years of experience, because if you fuck up something that is going to cost someone a billion bucks, you are never going to get another job in the field. As for H1Bs, people don’t hire them because they’re cheaper, or out of some kind of scam, or whatever other hypothesis you may have. They hire them because they demonstrate sufficient compentence and motivation to overcome the additional cost and lack of longevity in using foreign nationals. Hiring anyone–even a local search for junior level engineers and technicians–is an expensive and time consuming process for the manager and recruiter, and with junior candidates it is in some ways even harder than looking for specialized skills and experience because there are so many candidates and so little to distinguish them or basis for evaluating competence. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/45 "2015-10-07T12:42:59Z")
Nicely put. But that seems hard, and a lot of work. Way easier to get a 4-year degree, and then just wait for companies to throw money and big corporate jobs at me, and when they don’t, blame foreigners because “they took r jerbs!” ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/46 "2015-10-07T12:43:32Z")
As someone who has in the past and will in the future hire people into software development and sysadmin type jobs, I have a few thoughts. 1. I am seeing “requirements inflation” at my institution and I believe it is happening to some extent country-wide. For jobs that I would be fine with hiring someone with a bachelors for (or bachelors + experience) I am pressured to require a masters for. I get this pressure both from HR and from c-level leadership in my division. So far I have successfully resisted this. I’ve seen jobs posted by colleagues that inexplicably seek a PhD. 2. People with recently minted bachelor degrees need a lot of man hours put into making them effective workers. We see this a lot of CS majors. A CS degree teaches you very little about how to be a professional software developer. People come out of undergrad with some really weird ideas and habits. Our software development team, luckily, is willing and able to put time into mentoring them and fostering their growth and success. It’s a big cost to spend time on that, so employers have to make a decision about whether they want to spend their money that way. 3. Sponsoring someone for a Visa is a pain and costs money, so we don’t do it unless we find the ideal candidate. Rare, but it does happen. So if companies are sponsoring a lot of visas, I would guess they legitimately need to in order to get qualified people. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/47 "2015-10-07T14:57:47Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I have to hire software developers sometimes, and I don’t think a master’s necessarily teaches them useful job skills. But it certainly demonstrates they are willing to put in time and effort to achieve something, which is exactly a quality I look for… If the primary purpose of requiring a master’s degree is to demonstrate time and effort, why not allow other time and effort-related feats? For example, if a candidate doesn’t have a master’s degree but has accomplished something else that requires significant time and effort (e.g. writing a novel, running a marathon, climbing Everest, building their own house, earning a high score on a video game, hiking the entire Appalachian Trail, completing a very high number of volunteer hours, etc.), why not allow them to combine that with proof of subject matter knowledge (e.g. a bachelor’s degree, passing scores on tests, etc.) and hire based on that? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/48 "2015-10-07T15:00:35Z")
> [@Motorgirl](#): > > … > 2. People with recently minted bachelor degrees need a lot of man hours put into making them effective workers. We see this a lot of CS majors. A CS degree teaches you very little about how to be a professional software developer. People come out of undergrad with some really weird ideas and habits. Our software development team, luckily, is willing and able to put time into mentoring them and fostering their growth and success. It’s a big cost to spend time on that, so employers have to make a decision about whether they want to spend their money that way… I’ll say that this is true based on personal experience. When I got my BS in CS, I had barely heard of source control and didn’t really understand why one would _want_ to define or implement an object-oriented interface (e.g. in Java). My first real application was a horrific nightmare of bad practices. I got much better :). ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/49 "2015-10-07T15:11:08Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Yes, this is what I have concluded. My problem with this is the Federal government > > 1. Says Americans need to train in more STEM majors. I have 3 STEM degrees, one of them is the supposedly highly sought after computer engineering degree, yet it was crickets when I applied for jobs. > > 2. Spends vast sums of money to train Americans. I owe a lot of student loans. > > 3. Then gives special treatment to companies so they can bring in foreign workers to do my job instead. I don’t have a problem with the companies setting up offices in foreign countries and doing it that way - I can’t really expect America to police that. I do have a problem with them giving special incentives to take the jobs away from Americans. The emphasis on training Americans for work seems to be epidemic. My own local unemployment office touts going back to school as the treatment for unemployment woes - in fact, the offices are replete with posters telling people how if they could just earn a GED, then hiring managers will beat a path to their door. Hello? Bueller? There are people with college degrees here. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/50 "2015-10-07T15:15:52Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > I have 3 STEM degrees, one of them is the supposedly highly sought after computer engineering degree, yet it was crickets when I applied for jobs. For the love of god, why? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/51 "2015-10-07T15:47:42Z")
As a hiring manager, my primary interest in a graduate degree is having some technical topic to discuss and assess in depth. If it happens to be relevant to the position they are interviewing for so much the better, but that tends to be the exception rather than the rule. But being able to discuss their research topic or emphasis area gives me a good feel for how well they have mastered their studies and how interested they are in learning everything about what they’ve done rather than just taking a pre-defined project and cranking through by doing the bare minimum. For instance, I once interviewed a candidate that did research on propellant mixing in rotating detonation engines. This was unfortuante for him because I have an interest in continuous wave detonation engines (which are essentially the same thing), and when I started asking him questions about applications and issues related to his primary research, he demonstrated an utter lack of knowledge outside of the narrow range of his reesarch. Experience or challenges outside of academic and work experience may also be of applicable interest, but just because someone is accomplished at some area like climbing Mt. Everest doesn’t mean they’ll be good at the daily grind of a detail oriented technical position. If someone tried to claim that their high score on Donkey Kong qualified them in some why for an engineering role I’d cut the interview short and show them the door. Doging barrels and fireballs does occasionally happen in my line of work but only rarely and by exception. Mostly, I need someone who can write solid scripts in Matlab to crunch data, or perform a good quality FMECA, or read an engineering drawing. I don’t need Billy Mitchell skipping work for days on end to further his effort to achieve the kill screen. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/52 "2015-10-07T16:17:28Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > If the primary purpose of requiring a master’s degree is to demonstrate time and effort, why not allow other time and effort-related feats? For example, if a candidate doesn’t have a master’s degree but has accomplished something else that requires significant time and effort (e.g. writing a novel, running a marathon, climbing Everest, building their own house, earning a high score on a video game, hiking the entire Appalachian Trail, completing a very high number of volunteer hours, etc.), why not allow them to combine that with proof of subject matter knowledge (e.g. a bachelor’s degree, passing scores on tests, etc.) and hire based on that? A master’s demonstrates effort and commitment to the field they are attempting to get a job in. I don’t assign a ton of weight to it - all other things being equal, I’d go with someone who has 2 years experience in the field versus a master’s any day. But if I’m comparing a master’s and bachelor’s, the master’s shows more commitment to the field. If there were some easy test or way to prove subject matter knowledge (other than demonstrated work experience), I’d be all over that. But there simply isn’t. Classroom performance means little when it comes to software development, and tests mean even less. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/53 "2015-10-07T16:51:54Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > Because we do not live in a socialist country. The government does not control businesses or tell them how to operate, and laws on hiring practices are extremely limited. Basically the only laws that exist are those intended to protect against discrimination. It is not the government’s job to tell a business owner who they must hire. > > Further, if the business prefers to hire immigrants it must be because they find it advantageous to do so. The government is generally averse to ordering businesses to do things that would make them less profitable or less efficient. If you were a business owner, would you appreciate the government ordering you to hire a certain person? This is silly. Of course the government controls businesses, tells them who they can and can’t hire, and how much they can pay them, etc. Have you ever run a business? Furthermore, businesses prefer immigrants on an H1B visa for the precise reasons that they can pay them less and overwork them, because the immigrant employee cannot work for another company. The H1B ties them to a particular employer and if they want to change jobs, they have to get another H1B (which are in limited supply) or go back to their home country. And both of those options are extreme pains in the ass. Citizens are at a disadvantage because they have the freedom to change jobs if the work culture is shitty, they are asked to do too much, or they aren’t paid well. Immigrants have none of those privileges, and that’s why companies love to hire them, and are currently petitioning Congress to allow them to hire more. I’m all for allowing immigrants to work here. But they should be given the same privileges as citizens, so that employers aren’t biased towards hiring immigrants they can mistreat and underpay. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/54 "2015-10-07T17:04:44Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Furthermore, businesses prefer immigrants on an H1B visa for the precise reasons that they can pay them less and overwork them, because the immigrant employee cannot work for another company. The H1B ties them to a particular employer and if they want to change jobs, they have to get another H1B (which are in limited supply) or go back to their home country. And both of those options are extreme pains in the ass. H1B employees CAN, in fact, switch employers. The new employer simply has to file for a new H1B visa, which is NOT subject to the visa cap. This is causing a lot of companies to start to poach H1B visa holders from other companies because the visa process is not subject to the caps in place. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/55 "2015-10-07T17:09:05Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I wouldn’t say never. H1B status is, if anything, a negative. I should clarify that this was in my own experience. I’ve been part of the hiring process for large companies (Expedia) and small and H1B status was never mentioned around me. I have worked alongside H1B employees at most of my jobs and appreciate their competence. > [@Habeed](#): > > At the _time_, I didn’t have any experience. How was I supposed to get some if no one would hire me? I did have friends that went to more elite schools, and those schools have internship programs. That wasn’t accessible to me. You have one very accessible way to get and show experience: get a GitHub account and join (or start) an open source project. When I get a resume one of the first things I look for is involvement in online projects. It shows that you are motivated and passionate; if you are a good engineer it will be evident in your code. I can’t over-emphasize how much a good GitHub (or equivalent) account will help you get future jobs (in my experience). Pardon me for saying this but you come across in this thread as a spoiled, whiny, brat. Few things in this world will be handed to you and if you blame your troubles on things outside of your control you will find it harder to succeed. You have graduated with a degree so you appear to have talent. Learn to maximize it. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/56 "2015-10-07T20:25:46Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > The H1B ties them to a particular employer and if they want to change jobs, they have to get another H1B (which are in limited supply) or go back to their home country. And both of those options are extreme pains in the ass. Nitpick (although an important nit): an H-1B worker is only subject to the quota for the initial H-1B. If he/she jumps ship to another employer, no quota worries are involved. When I worked in-house at a Fortune 100 company, I advised recruiters all the time that they were free to poach H-1B workers from other companies. ETA: sorry, I didn’t read through the last few posts! but the point bears repeating. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/57 "2015-10-07T21:08:46Z")
To be fair, it’s not like there’s no legitimate criticism of the H1B system. Norm Matloff of UC Davis is an outspoken critic of the system; he’s written some stuff [here](http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/h1b.html), which is largely backed up with evidence. I took undergrad classes from Matloff; he’s not a nut. To sum up a few of the claims: - Despite the laws, H1B laborers get paid less than their local equivalents - The system is a backdoor way to enable age discrimination - While they aren’t exactly indentured servants, the risk of being sent home after being fired is a factor in job mobility - H1Bs are less skilled than their local equivalents - etc. His claims don’t match my experience, but there may be something to it on the average. ---
**Author:** ![Yarster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7c8e57/32.png) [@Yarster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yarster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/58 "2015-10-07T21:11:09Z")
My advice would be to focus on the defense industry, assuming you don’t have anything on your record that would prevent you from getting a security clearance and are in a location where there are bases nearby. Why? 1. H-1B Visas are not allowed because it’s defense work and these folks are not US citizens, so you eliminate the problem you are complaining about. 2. There is always pressure to “green” the workforce and keep prices low, so we periodically hire large numbers of (US citizens) straight out of college because they are less expensive than senior engineering staff. 3. Many Government contracts are of the “butts in seats” variety and the training is all on-the-job, so the expectation is that you don’t have any experience when you start. 4. If you are young, single, and willing to move (because you aren’t tied down yet with a family/spouse who also works/elderly parents you care for), you will find lots of jobs in defense that pay well and will even pay for relocation. Obviously some are dangerous and may not be your cup of tea (e.g. help write software or be a systems engineer at a forward operating base in Afghanistan). Others are simply less desirable locations. For example, I have had to recruit for positions in Alaska supporting the Coast Guard, and for the Navy in Ridgecrest, CA, which is a remote testing facility in the Mojave Desert. It is very hard to find people to move to these locations so we have to pay a premium, and yet the cost of living in these places is very low. Jobs overseas are often tax free and/or include a ‘hazard pay’ bonus. That’s often the key to saving money fast if you want to buy a house and jump start your career. Of course, I work in the industry and love it (and have a Master’s degree so I’m probably not the best person to ask since I’m the “enemy”) ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700/59 "2015-10-07T21:51:17Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > What I want to know is what skills employers are looking for that leads them to believe that only a person with a master’s degree can do them. Surely the job does not depend on the entire curriculum, so it should be possible to break apart what they really need from the pure academic stuff. Then we can set up additional ways to demonstrate those skills, like exams, portfolio reviews, etc. Why can’t we do this? In my field, a Master’s degree means to us that the candidate in question has some more solid research experience, they have generally better academics, generally a higher intelligence, generally are able to time-manage better, generally can self-manage better, and just generally are more able to handle a challenging, high-stress environment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masters-degrees-part-of-the-h1b-scam/733700.md?page=2)