# Math Increasingly Suggests Election Fraud Against Hillary Clinton **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 17, 2016, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220 "2016-11-17T02:23:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/61 "2016-11-17T23:47:16Z")
Speaking as a Sanders supporter, of course the DNC favored Clinton, and I’m not at all upset by that, because it was a perfectly legitimate thing for them to do. I mean, obviously I would have preferred if they had favored Sanders instead, but that was never very likely. It certainly wasn’t a “steal” in any sense. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/62 "2016-11-17T23:47:31Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Not exactly, since the whole Comey BS announcement/take back the weekend before the election date violates election laws (less than 60 days—he’ll, less than 7 days) and because it looks fairly obviously orchestrated to be a red herring. Talk about manipulation. Pretty sure it was Justice Department guidelines not election law. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/63 "2016-11-18T00:05:11Z")
The pre-election polls were not very encouraging. Many of them had huge response gaps that dwarfed the margin of error. Some statisticians were calling states one way or the other that they had no justification for. Both candidates were pretty disappointing to the general public, and it showed in the opinion polling. The outcome should not have been a big surprise. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/64 "2016-11-18T01:01:00Z")
Don’t know that I am surprised, can’t factor out shock, horror and dismay. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/65 "2016-11-18T02:23:52Z")
You don’t have to believe the truth; karma always knows the truth. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/66 "2016-11-18T02:24:48Z")
For me it has mostly just been disgust. ---
**Author:** ![OriginalGangster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea5d25/32.png) [@OriginalGangster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OriginalGangster)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/67 "2016-11-18T04:36:12Z")
As the popular vote margin grows, you have to wonder if this is true. Well over one million now. It’s impossible to separate fact from fiction at this point. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/68 "2016-11-18T04:38:25Z")
> [@OriginalGangster](#): > > …It’s impossible to separate fact from fiction at this point. I would say that’s undeniably true, but…well, you see the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/69 "2016-11-18T05:09:19Z")
> [@OriginalGangster](#): > > As the popular vote margin grows, you have to wonder if this is true. Well over one million now. > > It’s impossible to separate fact from fiction at this point. How exactly is the electoral fraud being committed? Weeks ago I would have I expected this question to be put to Trump supporters after the election, not Hillary supporters. ---
**Author:** ![OriginalGangster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea5d25/32.png) [@OriginalGangster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OriginalGangster)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/70 "2016-11-18T05:11:15Z")
The exit poll data simply doesn’t match up how it should in some of those swing states. It’s hard to know if that exit poll data is even real, the vote may not have been real, they may have intentionally set up the disparity between the popular/electoral college. It’s just impossible to tell. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/71 "2016-11-18T05:14:16Z")
> [@OriginalGangster](#): > > The exit poll data simply doesn’t match up how it should in some of those swing states. > > It’s hard to know if that exit poll data is even real, the vote may not have been real, they may have intentionally set up the disparity between the popular/electoral college. > > It’s just impossible to tell. Going by Occam’s Razor, it is far more plausible that the exit polls were wrong, in a “Dewey Defeats Truman” way, or that the Shy Trump Voter Theory is correct, than it is that there would be massive voter fraud. ---
**Author:** ![OriginalGangster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea5d25/32.png) [@OriginalGangster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OriginalGangster)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/72 "2016-11-18T05:18:18Z")
The million + popular vote also may be because of some of those states that Trump supposedly won. Entire thing has been a shuck & jive routine ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/73 "2016-11-18T05:26:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > _Excuse me madam voter, I’d like to ask you a couple questions about voting: Did you vote for Hillary Clinton, former Senator and Secretary of State, or for Donald Trump who gropes women, doesn’t pay his bills, and makes fun of handicapped people?_ +1 > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Really wish more people had asked themselves that as an entrance poll instead of an exit poll. +1 Which either makes me a nicely balanced sample, a raving schizoid lunatic or possibly both. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/74 "2016-11-18T05:28:38Z")
> [@OriginalGangster](#): > > The million + popular vote also may be because of some of those **states that Trump supposedly won.** Which specifically? ---
**Author:** ![OriginalGangster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea5d25/32.png) [@OriginalGangster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OriginalGangster)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/75 "2016-11-18T05:36:13Z")
The rust belt states that typically always go blue. It’s simply hard to believe Trump really won them. Ohio for example, the big 3 counties there all went blue plus a few others. States do use the popular vote system within their respective states. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/76 "2016-11-18T07:01:43Z")
Yeah, but how. A potential plot must have a mechanism, a mechanism that has to take place in the counting. Hack all the various voting machines? In such a way as no one who might be suspicious would never notice? And in this case, both sides are suspicious! So the individual county votes, etc. are most likely legit. And all anyone would have to do is add up those to see if it matches the totals. The larger point for me is the apparent Republican belief that all political victories are created equal, that if you can get to 50.001%, that is a mandate for a massive transformation. And at the same time, believe that something less than that is _equally_ a mandate for massive transformation. Planned Parenthood is more popular than they are, yet they piously invoke the will of the people to frustrate that will! What’s Trump’s approval rating right now, something around 40%, a bit less? This is the basis by which they invoke the Will of the People? With a straight face? ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/77 "2016-11-18T07:23:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The left has always been interested in federalism. The interest in gun ownership is a result of Trump voters making a big deal about how the concerns of women and minorities don’t matter anymore. And the California secessionists are idiots, like the Texans before them. > But Republicans are still interested in false equivalence, I see. > > On the bright side, at least you guys can finally relax and stop pretending to care things like transparency, corruption and of course the deficit which will magically cease to matter on January 20, 2017. On the other hand, you’ll have to go dig up the “opposing the president is treason” narrative again. It’s only been eight years since it got shelved, so it’s just a little dusty. It will be a miracle on the order of the fish and loaves for libs on this board to realize that “republicans do it too” isn’t a rebuttal. You’re all sore losers who do all the self serving nonsense that you criticize the right for. It’s petty and indicative of small minded ideologues who think their political positions make them righteous. Your side isn’t angelic, nor are your opponents devils. Get over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/78 "2016-11-18T07:44:30Z")
> [@OriginalGangster](#): > > The rust belt states that typically always go blue. > > It’s simply hard to believe Trump really won them. Ohio for example, the big 3 counties there all went blue plus a few others. > > States do use the popular vote system within their respective states. This is nutter than a squirrel turd. You have a hard time believing Trump won Ohio? OHIO?!? That was the ONE rust belt state he led in lots of polls. I could maybe see you arguing about Michigan or Wisconsin, but Ohio? C’mon man, you can do better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/79 "2016-11-18T10:47:51Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > It will be a miracle on the order of the fish and loaves for libs on this board to realize that “republicans do it too” isn’t a rebuttal. That wasn’t the “rebuttal”; that was me pointing out yet another example of the right-wing complaining about the left doing something the right do by several orders of magnitude more. The rebuttals were the bit where I point out your comparisons were off (except about the secessionists, whom I agreed were stupid). > [@](#): > > You’re all sore losers who do all the self serving nonsense that you criticize the right for. Not remotely. The left are always playing catch-up. > [@](#): > > It’s petty and indicative of small minded ideologues who think their political positions make them righteous. Firstly, see my first sentence above. Nobody does petty-minded self-righteousness like the right. Secondly, I don’t think my political position makes me righteous. I don’t think I’m righteous at all. But I think opposing a man who has happily brought the worst elements of American society into the highest office in the land at least puts me on the right side of history. > [@](#): > > Your side isn’t angelic, nor are your opponents devils. Get over yourself. I don’t think my side is remotely angelic nor that my opponents are devils. I do think that people who defend Trump are perfectly happy to abandon all their previous concerns and let America become a nastier place, however. Republicans complain about Hillary’s emails risking national security and then put into office a man who is openly going to let Russia dictate America’s foreign policy. They complain about Clinton’s corruption while Trump appoints his immediate family - who are running his businesses - to his staff and tries to get them the highest level of security access. The list goes on and on, and the man isn’t even president yet. Sorry to trot out PJ O’Rourke again but he hit the nail on the head: Clinton was wrong within normal human parameters. Trump is something else entirely, and he’s already proving himself incompetent at best and dangerous at worst. But hey - I’ll look at the bright side here - the GOP now control the White House and both Houses of Congress, so perhaps I’ll be proven wrong and America will be great again in short order. And if it all goes horribly wrong? Well, I suppose you’ll be right there to tell me to “get over it”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220/80 "2016-11-18T14:29:51Z")
Usually, say it never happened. Then, when you prove that it did, _that’s_ when they tell you to get over it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/math-increasingly-suggests-election-fraud-against-hillary-clinton/772220.md?page=5)