# mathematics curiousity **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 15, 2002, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940 "2002-11-15T22:14:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2

**Author:** ![Justhink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@Justhink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justhink)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940/21 "2002-11-16T06:26:46Z")

In a number like 1/9 with only one decimal; I can’t access the numbers moving to the left with a normal calculator; this has become bothersome to the degree that I’m more and more requiring to splice in certain points of infinite decimal readouts. 1414/9 157(1/9) 157.1111111111111111… \<---------157--------\>.\<---------111111111-----------\> Every number in a specific composition like this has an infinite number of algorythms (in the form of structured scales - what most consider ‘complete songs’) running through it spacially from all directions. 157.10^6_backwards_.(1/9).3 \<---------- 157.0000001\<---------…11111111111…\<--------3 ``` ^ ``` take a well known one like 1/7 0.142857.142.8437 857 142 857 V Right now I’m using it for composition signiture frequency modulations to compose music and recursively narrow down the most likely signature for a given body of work. I require these spacial edits for dimensions of timbre, tone, velocity, rhythm and whatnot… It’s a benchmark I set for myself to keep pace. It only get messier after this =) -Justhink ---

**Author:** ![Justhink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@Justhink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justhink)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940/22 "2002-11-16T06:33:54Z")

It’s a means to circumvent the floating point problem I keep running into. For a specific decimal readout; I turn it into a whole number by applying it’s base inversion against it; creating something like a physical structure from which I can observe intersecting themes and isolate various operators (in the form of numbers) working within the structure. -Justhink ---

**Author:** ![Justhink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@Justhink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justhink)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940/23 "2002-11-16T06:38:49Z")

D’oh… figures it wouldn’t format correctly. Move that gibberrish by the word “take” over to the 142. This pictoral certainly doesn’t do it justice; but I think it conveys the general idea of what type of calculator I’m searching for. -Justhink ---

**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940/24 "2002-11-16T12:39:47Z")

So, I think I actually understand what your getting at Justhink. What you want is a way of appending different number sequences onto each other. So you have a = 467346554 b = 3557674354865 so a.b.a = 4673465543557674354865467346554. In that case, I would suggest using a symbol other than . becauseyou need that as a place holder… If you have any knowledge of programming, I think the easiest thing to do would be to convert each number into a string, append the strings together and then turn them back into integers. Perl would be good for this I suspect. ---

**Author:** ![flex727](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/258eb7/32.png) [@flex727](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flex727)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940/25 "2002-11-16T14:04:59Z")

You guys _do_ know that computers and calculators are using binary, don’t you? There’s a whole other aspect to the question posed in the OP regarding decimal fraction conversion to binary that results in inaccuacies at the least significant digits. ---

**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940/26 "2002-11-16T15:48:36Z")

> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Justhink \* > \*\*Right now I’m using it for composition signiture frequency modulations to compose music and recursively narrow down the most likely signature for a given body of work. I require these spacial edits for dimensions of timbre, tone, velocity, rhythm and whatnot… > \*\* I have never seen nor heard of numbers with multiple decimal points, but then again I’m not a math major - does such a thing actually exist? I more or less think I understand what you want to do, and if I’m right, I worked on something very similar. Take a musical note, it can possibly be expressed by four parameters, say, frequency, amplitude, timbre and duration. If we asign an arbitrary number to timbre that corresponds to a preset on a synthesizer, we might get the following values for a note: 220.2 5000 3 254 However, because these four parameters correspond to a single note, you want to express them as a single value. The way this is done, is by writing them down as a 4-dimensional vector, written: (220.2, 5000, 3, 254). Thus, in a composition, each note becomes a single point in 4-d space, and, using vector arithmetics, you can then perform statistical analyses on your data set (the composition). Am I totally off? ---

**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940/27 "2002-11-16T19:37:20Z")

As has been mentioned, binary conversions and multiplication/division are both pretty sensitive to rounding errors. That’s pretty much what this all comes down to. I think **jovan** is right on as for what you really want to do. There’s no such thing as multiple decimal points in mathematics. ---

**Author:** ![Justhink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@Justhink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justhink)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940/28 "2002-11-16T22:55:51Z")

1414/9 -----------------------------157. …111111.11111…1111.11111… ---------------------1 ----------------1---------1 --------------1-------------1 ----------------1---------1.4141…0…111111… ---------------------1 Basically, the process of division allows one to select two numbers in a very structured setting. One of the ‘numbers’ is motion; charachterized by a repeating decimal output. By seperating the two numbers one can use both numbers to speak about themselves by calling slots in their own respective structures; ultimately speaking about the higher order as well; that created the decimal condition in the first place from the process of division. Think of the number 157 here as a mount on top of a ring; being expressed as perched atop a ring of repeating ones; the ring is 157 loops of 157 1’s running trough each 1 157 different ways. The point is that I require numbers to be able to speak about themselves by reading the values of their repeating output and then dropping a mark on that output for further recursive exploration to grab the higher order out of the system. That would be ONE area of the decimal number. When mapping an operator; these loops are converged with another series of abstractions on the same layer; at which point this convergenge is marked itself by a repeating decimal output which is eventually extracted into a whole number readout of ratios. The additional decimal points are used as markers that recognize the first order reading itself in the context of the numbers reflected in the output; effectively translating itself to that degree. Additional calls can be made to numbers than cannot divide equally when selected; at which point another division is procured at the designated mark. Part of this system as well is to allow the efficiency of expressiong a number like: 0.\<-------000000000001.\<-----11111-----\>.\<----222222222—\>3\<- Where it would only be expressable as as 0.11111111111… before. One of my largest problems is expressing numbers like this: 000011111111111111112222222222222000000000000 As an answer for a specific process. Often times I’ve run into areas where these types of answers are implied; but calculators will only save them on the side where the decimal point is. This has become a problem when dealing with ‘backwards reading’ and other uses I’ve found necessary as of late. I’m just having lots of fun with decimals right now; but this can be a bit annoying when running a loop bewteen process and answer; when I’m expecting this type of output on the other end; only to know that it has been lopped off; at which point I do the division by hand. -Justhink ---

**Author:** ![Justhink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@Justhink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justhink)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940/29 "2002-11-16T23:15:08Z")

So you have a = 467346554 b = 3557674354865 so a.b.a = 4673465543557674354865467346554. In that case, I would suggest using a symbol other than . becauseyou need that as a place holder… If you have any knowledge of programming, I think the easiest thing to do would be to convert each number into a string, append the strings together and then turn them back into integers. Perl would be good for this I suspect. I need . as a placeholder on two sides. I tried working symbolically by oscillating between bases; and isolating an additional number to that degree; but it still gives me the floating point issue with respect to a placeholder I need on both end (I still get infinite regress in this process) It’s not satisfactory for me to place a symbol like this without the symbol itself describing how it arrived there. -Justhink ---

**Author:** ![Justhink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@Justhink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justhink)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940/30 "2002-11-16T23:17:40Z")

One of my challenges involves mapping all the other operators into division itself. How does division read a 3 and tell me what is in the 3rd place? These are the types of issues I’m working on resolving. -Justhink ---

**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940/31 "2002-11-16T23:29:35Z")

Is there a question left re the OP because most of what you seem to be (apparently) discussing at this point is quantatative data analysis programming strategies which might be better served with a separate thread addressing these issues. ---

**Author:** ![Justhink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@Justhink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justhink)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940/32 "2002-11-16T23:47:02Z")

Another thing… With an answer like 1/3 .3333333333333333 The translation process will typicall render something like: 333334 (depending on the other number I’m working with). However; I can observe that there is another number back there which requires articulation in the process I’m using. It makes a big difference what’s back there! 0333334? 1333334? 2333334? 3333334? Without two decimals I can’t resolve it using a calculator. I try reversing the decimal output, and the obvious occurs: 0.43333333333333333 is it 0.4333330 0.4333331 0.4333332 0.4333333 ?? I find that accessing these numbers is critical towards knowing which part of the repeating fraction I’m opening up to insert a value. That’s why I’m using this convergence method; with the right side designating the values until I can nullify it and recieve a purer decimal output. At first I started taking random pop-shots to locate it, have lately figured out how to apply slightly more efficient factorization; yet the amount of data being factorized is phenomenal. At least I know some system boundaries now - so it’s not as bad as a needle in a haystck; but still pretty damn close. I can always cheat by using addition; but I’m trying to map addition!! I can’t do that =) -Justhink ---

**Author:** ![Justhink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@Justhink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justhink)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940/33 "2002-11-16T23:54:38Z")

No astro: I’ll stop with this topic; thanks for the replies. I don’t know programming languages; I’m trying to create a natural one through base conversion using the process of division; so that programming languages can be scanned for function (composition signature) and recalled through a direct command in english for a specific function (composition signature frequency). -Justhink [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mathematics-curiousity/136940.md?page=1)