# "Maths"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 18, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796 "2014-09-18T04:08:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/21 "2014-09-18T12:32:12Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > 😕 > Referring to “dice” as a singular noun is an error common to British and US English IME > > …an understandable one too, since dice is clearly an irregular plural. I was going to comment on that–it’s certainly not a UK English thing. Most Americans I know–unless they grew up playing D&D or dice-based role-playing games–use “dice” for the singular. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/22 "2014-09-18T13:00:30Z")
> [@](#): > > DIE, n. The singular of “dice.” We seldom hear the word, because > there is a prohibitory proverb, “Never say die.” At long intervals, > however, some one says: “The die is cast,” which is not true, for it > is cut. The word is found in an immortal couplet by that eminent poet > and domestic economist, Senator Depew: > > _A cube of cheese no larger than a die > May bait the trap to catch a nibbling mie._ –Ambrose Bierce _The Devil’s Dictionary_ ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/23 "2014-09-18T13:40:57Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I know. I just enjoy making fun of limeys. > > Now excuse me while I kick back and watch the dissolution of your union from afar. 😃 WTF dude. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/24 "2014-09-18T13:57:06Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > WTF dude. You know we jest frequently about the common language that divides us. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/25 "2014-09-18T14:09:12Z")
Hearing “maths” in the U.S. has become more prevalent with more Indian immigrants, whose English dialect is much more heavily influenced by England than by the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/26 "2014-09-18T14:19:11Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I know. I just enjoy making fun of limeys. > > Now excuse me while I kick back and watch the dissolution of your union from afar. 😃 **Moderator Note** **friedo** , while evidently meant in jest this is both insulting and verging on trolling. Let’s keep remarks like this out of GQ. No warning issued. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/27 "2014-09-18T15:23:59Z")
Maybe worth adding that what kids do in primary school is not ‘maths’. That is arithmetic; maths does not kick in until algebra, trigonometry and geometry rear their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/28 "2014-09-18T15:36:19Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Maybe worth adding that what kids do in primary school is not ‘maths’. That is arithmetic; maths does not kick in until algebra, trigonometry and geometry rear their heads. This is news to me. As a subject, they call it maths or mathematics at the local primary school near me (and others in the vicinity). Arithmetic, algebra etc are topics/themes within the subject. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/29 "2014-09-18T15:51:37Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > This is news to me. As a subject, they call it maths or mathematics at the local primary school near me (and others in the vicinity). Arithmetic, algebra etc are topics/themes within the subject. I’ve seen math and arithmetic used interchangebly at the elementary level around here, and it was that way when I was a kid. And apparently ‘arithmetic’ starts with an R, as does ‘writing’. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/30 "2014-09-18T16:34:14Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > This is news to me. As a subject, they call it maths or mathematics at the local primary school near me (and others in the vicinity). Arithmetic, algebra etc are topics/themes within the subject. It was arithmetic when I was at (UK) primary school. Mind you, that was a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/31 "2014-09-18T17:16:38Z")
I would say that for most students, high school geometry is the first actual math class they encounter. If you’re not doing proofs, then you’re not doing math. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/32 "2014-09-18T17:30:03Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > It was arithmetic when I was at (UK) primary school. Mind you, that was a long time ago. Informally/conversationally, it’s sometimes still referred to as arithmetic in the context of ‘the three Rs’ (reading writing and ‘rithmetic’) but in every academic sense, it’s maths or mathematics. Arithmetic, although still a perfectly valid technical term, is archaic as a subject name. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/33 "2014-09-18T18:52:12Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Informally/conversationally, it’s sometimes still referred to as arithmetic in the context of ‘the three Rs’ (reading writing and ‘rithmetic’) but in every academic sense, it’s maths or mathematics. Arithmetic, although still a perfectly valid technical term, is archaic as a subject name. I am not sure what you mean by “academic sense”. Perhaps when British primary school students learn to count, add, subtract, multiply, and divide, that is nowadays known as “maths” in the professional argot of primary school teachers and administrators, but (unless what is actually taught has changed a lot since my day, and has come to include much more advanced topics) it is still most accurately described as arithmetic, which, in the academic terms used in actual academia, is merely (at best) but one branch of maths (mathematics) amongst many. I say “at best” because, if **Chronos** , in the post above yours, is right (I am not saying I agree, but it is a defensible point of view), in strict, academic, terms arithmetic is not really mathematics at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/34 "2014-09-18T19:21:53Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I am not sure what you mean by “academic sense”. Perhaps when British primary school students learn to count, add, subtract, multiply, and divide, that is nowadays known as “maths” in the professional argot of primary school teachers and administrators Exactly that, yes. > [@](#): > > , but (unless what is actually taught has changed a lot since my day, and has come to include much more advanced topics) it is still most accurately described as arithmetic Which is what I meant by ‘technical sense’. In my experience (as a primary school governor) primary school teachers refer to the subject and teaching of mathematics as ‘mathematics’ or ‘maths’. They might talk about some detail as ‘arithmetic operations’ or similar - i.e. as a term of technical detail, much as a computer programmer might also term it. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/35 "2014-09-18T20:45:41Z")
Of course arithmetic is part of mathematics. So are algebra, geometry, analysis, logic (mathematical logic, that is) and even category theory. Also arithmetic isn’t just 1 + 1 = 2, but includes higher arithmetic, e.g. quadratic reciprocity and, ultimately, Fermat’s last theorem. Maybe one day, “rice” will be considered a plural of “rie”. (You will find this joke somewhere in Stephen Pinker’s works but he stole it from my late colleague who taught Pinker his first mathematical linguistics course. Finally, “Statistics is the study of statistics.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/36 "2014-09-18T20:59:52Z")
‘Maths’ is, in fact, an acronym for ‘Mathematical Anti-Telharsic Harfatum Septonin’, of course. Now write that down in your copybook. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/37 "2014-09-18T20:59:57Z")
Back to the original topic - why does the unabbreviated term end with an S anyway? Why aren’t we calling it _Mathematic_? (and Physic, Linguistic, Economic )? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/38 "2014-09-18T21:01:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > ‘Maths’ is, in fact, an acronym for ‘Mathematical Anti-Telharsic Harfatum Septonin’, of course. > > Now write that down in your copybook. Imhotep is invisible. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/39 "2014-09-18T21:15:09Z")
Mitt Romney was ridiculed for using the term “sport” where most American speakers would expect “sports”. (The quote was, “I figured he had to be in sport, but he wasn’t in sport”.) However Romney’s usage would be normal and acceptable to British English speakers. The other way around from “math” and “maths”. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796/40 "2014-09-18T21:54:46Z")
“Maths” is just the correct way of saying “math”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maths/698796.md?page=3)