# Matrix II - Pre-Release Thread - will it be above and beyond the first? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643 "2003-05-02T15:24:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/1 "2003-05-02T15:24:24Z")
Ok I’ve seen the trailers, I read the reviews and I can not wait untill it comes out. Should we be expecting something completely above and beyond the wonders of the first one, or are we going to be disappointed? I doubt the latter, I just want to know what to expect!! **Pulling hair out** ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/2 "2003-05-02T15:53:46Z")
Expectations are very very high. Easily comparable to FOTR or Episode 1. It is my hope that we’re going to see more of the former than the latter. I recently rewatched the original and I’d have to say that what made it work, above and beyond the spectacular visuals, was a kind of haunting _mood_, almost every frame was foreboding and strange. Everything I read about “Reloaded”, though, is about the action setpieces, the innovations, the ass-kicking. Yes I like ass-kicking but please please give me something to hang it on. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/3 "2003-05-02T19:46:27Z")
Anyone seen the latest commercial? Even though it’s a commercial, I’ll spoiler box it: [spoiler] At the end, one agent Smith says to Morpheus, “If you can’t beat us…” and then another Smith comes around the corner and says, “Join us!” They have Morpheus pinned and it looks like one of them is going to punch into him and turn him into a Smith(like we’ve seen him do in the trailers). I hope Morpheus survives at least into the third movie! [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/4 "2003-05-02T20:12:05Z")
It will surpass the original in every way. Well, every way except _not_ being all about the action. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/5 "2003-05-02T23:32:16Z")
Well I have _just_ watched the 94 megabyte trailer. Judging by that I estimate that it will be twenty-seven times better than the first one. ---
**Author:** ![Eternal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@Eternal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eternal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/6 "2003-05-03T04:19:15Z")
I’m not expecting it be as great as the first, mostly because when I saw the Matrix on it’s first weekend I was in such a glorious daze because I had never seen anything like it before. But by now we’ve all seen bullet-time and I’ve watched _Twin Warriors_ and _Fist of Legend_, and have therefore seen the best wire-fu can offer. So I don’t think _Reloaded_ will be able to impress me. I have higher hopes for _Revolutions_. I heard most of it is set outside the Matrix, so I like to imagine it is what _Termanator 3_ should have been: Future war, robots vs man. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/7 "2003-05-03T06:15:20Z")
**Eternal** : _Reloaded_’s effects will still be cutting edge. Think ten-minute fight scenes that are entirely computer-generated, but indistinguishable from the real actors and locations. ---
**Author:** ![Eternal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@Eternal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eternal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/8 "2003-05-03T06:28:28Z")
I can say this with 100% certainty right now: No, it won’t. At any rate, that’s not really a merit in and of itself. Whose to say that will actually be interesting? ---
**Author:** ![Eternal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@Eternal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eternal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/9 "2003-05-03T06:30:20Z")
I should clarify: The graphics may be cutting-edge, but I’m sure they won’t have any prolonged fight scenes featuring convincing digital replicas of people. ---
**Author:** ![DEVA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@DEVA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DEVA)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/10 "2003-05-03T06:41:43Z")
Okay, May 15 is not far off. I can handle that. Opening night is on the menu. Raise your hand if you can’t wait for NOVEMBER to come around!!! \ A Matrix movie plot that is based OUTSIDE of the matrix sounds very cool. I wish that Aaliyah was still here. My husband and I so desperately wanted to see her in it… ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/11 "2003-05-03T07:43:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eternal \* > \*\*I should clarify: The graphics may be cutting-edge, but I’m sure they won’t have any prolonged fight scenes featuring convincing digital replicas of people. \*\* [This Wired article](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.05/matrix2_pr.html) says otherwise: > [@](#): > > If the dojo fight in The Matrix was a kung fu sonata, the Burly Brawl is a symphony. Neo tears the sign from the ground and wields it as a kendo sword, vaulting pole, and battering ram. A woman walking by can’t believe what she’s seeing; suddenly her body is hijacked, she drops her grocery bag, and another Smith charges into the fray. Whole battalions of Smiths arrive, mount assaults, attack in waves, scatter, regroup, and head back for more. (At ESC, one massive pile-on was dubbed the “Did someone drop a quarter?” shot.) In the thick of it, Neo is dancing, chucking black-tied bodies skyward, pivoting around the signpost, and using shoulders as stepping-stones over the raging river of whup-ass. > > Fans will wear out their remotes replaying the scene on DVD, but what they won’t see, even riding the Pause button, is a transition that happens early on. When Neo and Agent Smith walk into the courtyard, they are the real Reeves and Weaving. But by the time the melee is in full effect, everyone and everything on the screen is computer-generated - including the perspective of the camera itself, steering at 2,000 miles per hour and screaming through arcs that would tear any physical camera apart. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/12 "2003-05-03T13:37:58Z")
[http://www.thehotbutton.com/today/hot.button/index.html](http://www.thehotbutton.com/today/hot.button/index.html) This guy has a really well written review of the movie. I’d say it is mostly spoiler free, with at most some minor spoilers. He loves the movies, but is grounded. He mentions that it is unfathomable that both the Lord of the Rings and the Matrix trilogies will have their climax within about a month of each other. It is a great time to be a movie fan. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/13 "2003-05-03T13:44:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*[This Wired article](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.05/matrix2_pr.html) says otherwise: \*\* I think Eternal’s key point is _convincing_. Digital setpieces are becoming common and I’m still skeptical if I’ll be fooled into thinking a digital stuntman isn’t. Still, I’m gonna do my best to keep an open mind cause I’d like to see it pulled off :). ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/14 "2003-05-03T13:57:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Silentgoldfish \* > \*\*I think Eternal’s key point is _convincing_. Digital setpieces are becoming common and I’m still skeptical if I’ll be fooled into thinking a digital stuntman isn’t. Still, I’m gonna do my best to keep an open mind cause I’d like to see it pulled off :). \*\* I think if you overanalyze it, you will be able to tell the fake setpieces and the fake “digital actors”. But it will still probably be better than actual stuntmen, who you can always spot if you overanalyze. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/15 "2003-05-03T17:11:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eternal \* > I should clarify: The graphics may be cutting-edge, but I’m sure they won’t have any prolonged fight scenes featuring convincing digital replicas of people. Really? How do you know? You know the fight scene in the trailer between Neo and about 100 Agent Smiths? Can you pick out which ones are real and which ones are digital? ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/16 "2003-05-03T23:44:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > \*\*Really? How do you know? You know the fight scene in the trailer between Neo and about 100 Agent Smiths? Can you pick out which ones are real and which ones are digital? \*\* I can tell you that everyone that’s seen the trailer with me says the bit where he ducks and his coat is flying out behind him in ultra slow motion looks fake. Honestly I’m not trying to bash the movie at all – I haven’t seen anything other than the trailer. I’m merely hoping that there’s not a repeat of Spider-man where the action sequences with the digital people looked really out of place since they were no where near as real as the special effects people seemed to have thought. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/17 "2003-05-04T02:10:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Silentgoldfish \* > I can tell you that everyone that’s seen the trailer with me says the bit where he ducks and his coat is flying out behind him in ultra slow motion looks fake. I know what you’re saying, but this always seemed silly to me, pointing to something that can’t happen and saying that’s not what it really looks like. Bullet-time pans in general look fake because we never see it, so we can’t possibly interpret it as looking right. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-ii-pre-release-thread-will-it-be-above-and-beyond-the-first/172643/18 "2003-05-04T02:16:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > \*\*I know what you’re saying, but this always seemed silly to me, pointing to something that can’t happen and saying that’s not what it really looks like. Bullet-time pans in general look fake because we never see it, so we can’t possibly interpret it as looking right. \*\* No, no, they’re saying the way his coat flows out behind him looks fake. Depending on how they do it unrealistic acts look real even when they’re not – I couldn’t fool myself into thinking that it was anything but a bunch of polygons swinging through New York but damn if that bit at the end of the Matrix trailer with him flying out of the castle doesn’t look cool :).