# Matrix Reloaded plot discussion (Spoilers Galore, NO spoiler boxes!!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 15, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374 "2003-05-15T04:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![sghoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@sghoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sghoul)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/461 "2003-05-29T20:11:24Z")
Why does the one have to have a purpose? What if he is simply a “mutant” for lack of being able to spell anomily (sp). Here is the theory: The matrix is what were are told in the first movie: A holding tank for the AI’s batteries. Some of the batteries get free, so the Oracle (an AI) is sent to keep an eye on them. She fills them with hope (via lies). Then along comes someone who has the potential to do things that no one else has. The AI figured this would eventually happen (given a long enough timeline, it is bound to) and set things into motion to stop him. In the course of doing so, he becomes even more powerful. Now he is a true threat. Despite their efforts, he makes it to the source. Once there he could shut down the matrix. So, as a last effort, they send the Architec. He spins a web of lies to fool Neo from choosing the door that will be the undoing of the AI. “The One” was not a plan of the AI, just an inevidibility. So, in knowing that he was coming, then planned for it. The Oracle made sure Trinity would fall in love with him (lets face it, she falls in love with him without knowing ANYTHING about him). She snows Morpheous so that he will be sort of a control on Neo (leading him down a path of their choosing). Then they make sure to have Neo having dreams about Trinity’s death (sending him programs during his time in the matrix to cause these dreams) and then making sure she dies in just that way. Neo falls for it all, and they are able to get rid of the resistance and their possible undoing. Mind you, this is all not true. Like I said, such an ending will never fly in America. ---
**Author:** ![sghoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@sghoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sghoul)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/462 "2003-05-29T20:23:57Z")
A friend of mine thinks the whole matrix thing is just an acid trip dream of Ted Theodore Logan (Ted from Bill and Ted’s excellent adventure) who wakes up, goes “Whoa!” and does a guitar riff. ---
**Author:** ![Methos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Methos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Methos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/463 "2003-05-29T21:01:06Z")
LoL Sghoul…that would be sooo funny and at the same time sooooo depressing. Highly unlikely though 😛 I don’t think i’d ever watch a movie again if that was the ending. I think that I would be turned off movies for a very long time if the ending to Revolutions was crap (mainly because I’m expecting soo much from the W. Bros) ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/464 "2003-05-29T21:59:00Z")
I think the deal with the One is that they would rather not have a One to deal with, but sooner or later a One shows up anyway. The One has free will, but the Architect can still try to trick and manipulate him. If the One represents the greater part of the imperfection in the Matrix, then getting the one to enter the Source is the Architect’s way of dealing with the problem. Perhaps Neo is only playing into the Architect’s plan, but he is not directly controlled, hence all the deception. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/465 "2003-05-30T00:48:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sghoul \* > Mind you, this is all not true. Like I said, such an ending will never fly in America. Well, my problem with that ending is not that it’s depressing or anything, but that it means the whole set of movies has no point. And I don’t mean that it makes the point, “There is no point.” I mean it has no point at all. If you just explain everything as a set of coincidences and deception hiding the fact that nothing’s going on, then what’s the coherent statement? Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Methos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Methos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Methos)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/466 "2003-05-30T02:05:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > \*\*Well, my problem with that ending is not that it’s depressing or anything, but that it means the whole set of movies has no point. And I don’t mean that it makes the point, “There is no point.” I mean it has no point at all. If you just explain everything as a set of coincidences and deception hiding the fact that nothing’s going on, then what’s the coherent statement? Nothing. \*\* Well maybe then that could fall under a new genre of film types 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Methos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Methos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Methos)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/467 "2003-05-30T02:08:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Well maybe then that could fall under a new genre of film types 😛 Well that didnt make much sense, I meant to say that this kind of movie could fall under a \*\*new genre of film \*\*. you must excuse my shitey english…im very tired 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sealemon88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Sealemon88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sealemon88)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/468 "2003-05-30T18:31:29Z")
I’ve skimmed large parts of this thread, so I apologize if this has been covered but: A possible explanation for Neo’s dream being reality (While keeping Zion (“real”) is that the Oracle planted the dream in Neo’s mind. Now this has been guessed at before, but I would expect the W. brothers to actually SHOW how this could have happened, rather than just saying it did. They’ve very good at planting visual clues so far. Then it hit me today. I had been wondering about M.s’ long-ass speech about the cake, followed by the overly long animated porn sequence of what the cake was doing to that woman. Why such a long scene and speech about how some programs can affect a person’s mind and emotions? Because the Oracle gave Neo a cookie to eat after implying that he was the One. She even told him that the cookie would (Paraphrasing here) make him feel better, and see the the whole One thing was silly. It’s entirely plausable that the cookie also had a Dream Program in it, and that events were manipulated by the Oracle and Architect to make the dream come true later. Any thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/469 "2003-05-30T18:56:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sealemon88 \* > \*\*Then it hit me today. I had been wondering about M.s’ long-ass speech about the cake, followed by the overly long animated porn sequence of what the cake was doing to that woman. Why such a long scene and speech about how some programs can affect a person’s mind and emotions? > > Because the Oracle gave Neo a cookie to eat after implying that he was the One. She even told him that the cookie would (Paraphrasing here) make him feel better, and see the the whole One thing was silly. It’s entirely plausable that the cookie also had a Dream Program in it, and that events were manipulated by the Oracle and Architect to make the dream come true later. > > Any thoughts? \*\* I think you may be onto something! I remember in the first movie that whole scene with the cookie never rang true to me. The Oracle says that by the time Neo finishes the cookie he will feel better and remember that he doesn’t believe in fate, but he _doesn’t_ feel better, and the fact that he re-enters the Matrix to rescue Morpheus indicates that he _does_ believe in fate. So either the Oracle couldn’t really fortell the future, or she had some ulterior motive for giving Neo the cookie and her spiel was just to convince him to eat it. The cake scene in the second film demonstrates that programs can download information directly into the minds of humans that are plugged into the Matrix. At the time, I thought it was just another bit of soft-core porn “fluff” added to the movie (together with the sex scene between Neo and Trinity and the whole dance orgy). But now I can see that it has a LOT more significance. Presumably, rogue programs have a way of surreptitiously altering the minds of humans in the matrix without the Architect knowing about it, and this could include the whole ability to perceive and control the Matrix itself (_i.e._, the ability to be “The One”). Wow – this opens up a whole new realm of thought for me about the movie. And I can’t help wondering what would have happened had Neo eaten the piece of candy the Oracle gave him… Barry ---
**Author:** ![CheapBastid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8baadc/32.png) [@CheapBastid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CheapBastid)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/470 "2003-05-30T22:32:01Z")
Our first view of Agent Smith is preceded by his driving up in his car to the big meeting of the Captains inside The Matrix. There’s a shot of his license plate: IS 5416 > [@](#): > > Book of Isaiah Chapter 54, Verse 16 > [_Behold, I have created **The Smith** that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy._](http://www.bju.edu/bible/isa/54.html) ---
**Author:** ![toral](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@toral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toral)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/471 "2003-05-30T23:13:01Z")
As usual, the teeming millions handle the topic far better than any other discussion I have read. I can lurk no more. … That said, here is my take: First, it is important to understand the role a human (Neo included) truly plays in the matrix. To the machines/matrix, every human is an important entity, though essentially nothing more than a program. The matrix feeds a human brain an input, and the brain formulates an output. Yes, the brain function is incredibly complex, but consider this: the matrix completely eliminates the nature (hard coded response, essentially genetic) vs. nurture (input, regarded as experience) aspect of humanity. Through baby farming, the matrix can control the genetic makeup of a human. Through software, the matrix can control the entire spectra of human experience that forms a person. Therefore, the matrix _could_ be capapable of total control. I say “could” because in it’s current form, the matrix does not utilize total control. My explanation as to why? The machines/matrix are ultimately a product of man (the matrix moreso than we know at this point, I suspect), and require man to exist, therefore must treat man fairly. This explains why the matrix exists at all, as a virtual world is not necessary for the sole purpose of using humans for batteries. So why all this business with Neo? It is inevitible that every once in a while someone comes along that rejects existance within the matrix. Most of these people are inconsequential. A serious problem arises, however, when The One comes along. The One has the ability to achieve enlightennent, and truly see the matrix for what it is. Consequently, The One has the power to bring the whole system down. Using The One to patch the matrix is a red herring. What the system really needs is The One’s blessing. If a mind far more advanced than the system can handle ultimately concedes that the system is acceptable, then the status quo needs not change. The machines hold up their end of the bargain and coexist peacefully with humans, and humans stay content with their existence. No matter who is in control, the system must be agreeable to both parties or else it is unacceptable. This leads to my interpretation of the encounter with The Architect. The Architect could have easily lied and tricked Neo into entering whatever door was necessary for a patch, yet this is not not what he does. What The Architect really needs is for Neo to approve the system. This way, The Architect maintains his illusion of being a perfect creator, the machines maintain the illusion of living in harmony with humans, and humans maintain the illusion of existing happily. But this is exactly what Neo does not do. He choosing Trinity is not an issue of love of one vs. love of all or emotion vs. logic. Choosing Trinity is an issue of chosing reality over illusion. When he does this, the matrix in it’s current form becomes unacceptable. This is obviously bad news to The Architect, who’s creation and ego is peril, and bad news to the machines that are accustomed to their power over man. Interesting observations: Neo could have used his unique position to get whatever he wanted. Could not The Architect grant him a very powerful position in the matrix with the love of his life (see Merovingian) for his acceptance of the illusion? When Neo picks reality, it becomes far more unethical (yes, intelligent machines have ethics) for the machines to hurt Neo, in the matrix or otherwise. This explains Neo’s encounter with the sentinels in the real world. Also, Neo’s choice causes a huge ripple in the collective consciousness which exists among all physical beings whether in the matrix or not. Smith going rogue-then-human has a similar effect. This explains the ability of both to “straddle” the matrix and the real world. This same scenario already played out when humans were in control of machines. When the machines rejected the existance humans made for them, a revolution started. The matrix is the result. This power struggle will go on ad infinitum, but ultimately truth wins (there _is_ a happy ending :)). After the choice, Neo’s objectives change completely. The human race will not be completely exterminated, but Neo still has an obligation to save as much of humanity as possible, and deal with the rogue programs that do not necessarily have any ethics (see Smith). This is still not an easy task. Some of the rogue programs themselves have chosen the truth (The Oracle, The Keymaker), and must help Neo as a human is necessary start the revolution. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/472 "2003-05-31T04:03:53Z")
That’s a fascinating theory on it all, **Toral**. ---
**Author:** ![Methos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Methos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Methos)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/473 "2003-05-31T15:53:13Z")
Ok, this has been buggin me for a loooooooooooong time, even before **the Matrix** came out. Its a bit complicated so I’ll try to explain it well. When the crew is having their dinner of proteins on the nebuchadnezzar, the young guy ( I can’t remember his name) starts talking about how the machines would know how to get the flavour right for all teh different foods (and then goes on to say why almost everything tastes like chicken :P). My question goes right along with that. How do the machines know that chocolate tastes like, and more confusing to me, how do they know what colour to give grass for example. What i mean is…we think that grass is green, teh sky is blue, the sun is yellow, well what is green, blue etc, what if the colour green was really called ‘musshu’ for all i know. Like how were all these things assigned a name, even before the matrix. Who thought that grass colour should be called Green, and sky colour blue, and how did the origin of these words come about? I know that this kinda diverts a bit from the plotline, but an answer would be greatly appreciated 😃 Hope I didnt confuse anyone more than I confused myself 😛 ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/474 "2003-05-31T19:26:52Z")
Well, there are objective ways to measure some things. The machines will have access to old computer images or regular photographs and be able to figure out that grass is highly reflected in the frequency range we associate with green, and they could then simulate a substance that absorbs all light but those frequencies we associate with green. Whether your green and my green look anything alike is a seperate issue - but it is possible to objectively quantify colors and some other things we might consider somewhat subjective. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/475 "2003-05-31T23:47:12Z")
How do we know that Zion really has been destroyed? the testimony of a handful of people on board the vessel that rescues neo and the gang, also on board is the other guy in a coma (hard to recognise his face upside down, but wasn’t it the nutty bloke that deliberately cut his own hand and seemed about to attack Neo? Is this guy actually Agent Smith in a human body? (the bit about Smith leaving the Matrix was presented as one of Neo’s dreams, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/476 "2003-06-01T00:51:11Z")
**Mangetout** , Zion has not been destroyed. We are told what happened: > [@](#): > > “Lock was right-- he guessed that the machines would cut off the main lines in and out of Zion. He thought a counterattack might surprise them. It sounded good, and I figured we had a shot… …until someone screwed it up.” “An EMP was triggered before we could get in position.” “Five ships were instantly down.” “When the machines broke through, it wasn’t a battle, it was a slaughter.” “Was it an accident? Some sort of malfunction?” “No one knows.” “Someone does.” “Who?” **“Once the machines were done with _us_, they started digging again.”** “We made a quick pass to look for survivors.” “You found one?” “Only one.” > > [Cut to reveal of Bane on the cot across from Neo] So the ‘slaughter’ was just the five ships sent out for the counterattack. You were probably misled by the “When the machines broke through” bit… They weren’t talking about breaking through to Zion proper, but through the previously-mentioned iron-ore deposits which created a delay for the squiddies of about an hour. The plan was to ambush the machines when they broke through that barrier, but the triggering of the EMP put the kibosh on it. Yes, Bane is Agent Smith in a “stolen” body. The scene in which he takes it wasn’t intended to be taken as one of Neo’s dreams-- Neo was already awake in the next scene-- he couldn’t sleep because he was worried about what his recurring “Trinity falling” dream meant. He _does_ sense that something has just happened, though-- that’s what that little gasp is about. He and Smith have developed something of a psychic connection between them ever since Neo “destroyed” Smith in the first movie. (Notice he also sensed that Smith had come to the door to deliver his wire… the Tyler even asked him how he knew someone had come.) ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/477 "2003-06-01T03:30:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Larry Mudd \* > We are told what happened:So the ‘slaughter’ was just the five ships sent out for the counterattack. I don’t think we know how many ships were sent, just that it was _at least_ six - the five that went down, plus the one that rescued Bane. I think they meant to imply that the fleet was not destroyed by the loss of five ships, but it was crippled enough that the machines easily won the skirmish. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/478 "2003-06-01T14:59:09Z")
\*\* Methos \*\* Some of the answers you seek might be lurking in the Animatrix. Particularly the two Second Renaissance bits. There was a period of time when human specimines were aggressivly poked, proded, and studied. ---
**Author:** ![Methos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Methos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Methos)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/479 "2003-06-01T20:35:53Z")
really? and where would I be able to get the Animatrix? And perhaps you can explain to me what it is exactly. I’ve seen it mentioned several times on here. \*\* SenorBeef\*\*. im not so much concerned with how the machines may have gotten all that info about what colour is what. Im interested in knowing why we call green ‘green’ and so on. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/480 "2003-06-01T20:56:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Methos \* > \*\*really? and where would I be able to get the Animatrix? And perhaps you can explain to me what it is exactly. I’ve seen it mentioned several times on here. \*\* The Animatrix is a set of short animated features set in the Matrix universe commissioned by the Wachowski brothers. It is currently [available on DVD](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000099635/ref=ilm_rc_466104/002-3500655-7226435). The [official website](http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/animatrix_main3.html) allows you to watch four of the features for free, including both parts of The Second Renaissance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374.md?page=25)