# Matrix Reloaded plot discussion (Spoilers Galore, NO spoiler boxes!!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 15, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374 "2003-05-15T04:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ratty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ccd318/32.png) [@ratty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratty)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/81 "2003-05-16T18:13:37Z")
Here’s my theory on the movie: Zion is not real, but it is not strictly a part of the Matrix, at least, not as controlled as the rest of the Matrix. Zion may represent a sort of “managed anomaly”. Neo represents an anomaly that will be used to the system’s benefit- a masterly rewrite if ever I saw one. Neo must make a choice- but since the machines write the parameters, it is a controlled choice- no matter what he does, the machines win, since the Matrix will either continue or simply be reloaded. Using humans as batteries makes sense in a cyberpunk post-apocalypse sort of way, so that I believe is straightforward. Shutting down the Matrix means only that those who are plugged in will be killed in the sense that they will no longer exist within the Matrix. Chances are their bodies will still be used for power, simply withut the expedient of making them believe otherwise. Free will and fate are a huge point of this movie, but I can’t really see the brothers W going _1984_ at the end of it all. I’m thinking they’ll go for the _Akira_ ending. Several times in the film, it is mentioned that machines need humans as much as humans need machines. It is also frequently said the Neo is “still human”. Think about this in terms of the comments on evolution. Neo is the first One to choose to behave selfishly as opposed to altruistically- he saves Trinity rather than mankind. I believe that there are a few factions here: Zion represents solely human interests, the Architect and the Agents solely mechanical ones. The Exiles, rogue AI like the Keymaster, meld both. The Exiles are being hunted for deletion so the Matrix can reload- as rogues they have ceased to function as they were written, exercising free will. Old, non-functioning programs must be deleted before installing a new system. The Oracle must be a rogue, since she is in danger, leaving her apartment, hiding in the Matrix, employing a bodyguard. If she were still following orders, this would not be necessary. (The Architect and the Agents are doing what they’re supposed to- they’re in no danger.) I believe Neo exercises free will as the Architect cannot foresee or control. I believe Neo will finally end the war, but not in the way Morpheus believes. I see the brothers W going for a sort of man-machineinterface at the end, both parties evolving towards a more peaceable symbiotic relationship in which control by one party over the other is not possible since both are integral parts of the system. (Think about the discussion with the Counselor on the nature of control.) Neo will therefore choose to bring the Matrix and real world together in some sort of harmony, or he will create a new world in which humans and machines can live together. His abilties both within the Matrix and in Zion are examples of this new power. It’s the symbiosis of fate and free will. Neo is fated to have this power- it is his choice what he does with it. (A Christ analogy may be appropriate here.) As for Smith, he is now a rogue AI. He and Neo somehow exchage dinformation, giving Neo greater insight into the Matrix and giving Smith the power of free will. I think the Merovingian is a true program- he is doing what he’s supposed to do by keeping the Keymaster prisoner. The Keymaster has gone rogue, and must be kept imprisoned so he can be deleted. Persephone may or may not be rogue. It seems she has gone this way, but it may be a ruse. Too early too tell. So there’s my theory of a sort. ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/82 "2003-05-16T18:31:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spectrum \* > \*\*Sadly, the Oracle won’t be in the third one. From what I understand, the wonderful actress who played the part died before filming her scenes for Revolutions. No doubt there will be repurcussions of the revelation that she’s part of the Matrix system, but she won’t be there to react. ☹ \*\* They’ll probably just get another actress to play her and have her claim that she’s in disguise or that she had the cyber equivalent of a makeover to explain why she looks different. I’m still going to miss the original actress though, she did a great job. Thanks for the info on that code **Headrush042** , and welcome to the boards. ---
**Author:** ![Severian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Severian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Severian)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/83 "2003-05-16T18:43:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ratty \* > \*\*Shutting down the Matrix means only that those who are plugged in will be killed in the sense that they will no longer exist within the Matrix. Chances are their bodies will still be used for power, simply withut the expedient of making them believe otherwise. > \*\* Doesn’t the architect say in no uncertain terms that the matrix crashing will result in the end of all humanity? If there is no more matrix to convince the bodies they are alive, they can’t be used for power anymore. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ratty \* > \*\*I believe Neo will finally end the war. > \*\* That’s not going to happen in the movies. ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/84 "2003-05-16T19:06:45Z")
Here’s my theory: Monica Bellucci. On the other hand, Monica Bellucci. But in the end, I’d have to say Monica Bellucci. ---
**Author:** ![owlofcreamcheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@owlofcreamcheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlofcreamcheese)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/85 "2003-05-16T19:21:22Z")
it is sad that the actress that plays the oracal died, but I doubt that will be a problem, it would not have surprised me if they didn’t keep the same actor for her the whole time anyway, being a black grandmother is just a shape she takes at the time… if she was a cute old man or a cat or something in the next movie it wouldn’t be hard to explain the change. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/86 "2003-05-16T19:24:40Z")
A bit of tedious theology regarding the Architect & the Oracle. (I know some people get irritated by this stuff, but it only makes sense to go to the material the Wachowski brothers are using as a starting-point.) In the gnostic tradition, divinity has levels. There is a supreme God which has two aspects subordinate to it, approximately “male” and “female.” The “male” component, is the _demiurge_, and is equivalent to the Hebrew’s YHVH. He is responsible for the creation of the physical universe, and is the head deity of the _lowest order_ of spiritual beings (or programs, I guess,) called the Aeons. The consciousness that the Archon gives to human beings is incomplete-- it is merely “sensuous soul.” The sort even animals have. Free will is not part of the package. Intercession of the _ultimate_ God can endow human beings with “rational soul”, capable of making real decisions, instead of being at the effect of mere causality. How the demiurge relates to the saviour, from [The Catholic Encyclopaedia](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04707b.htm): > [@](#): > > The Demiurge in creating this world out of Chaos was unconsciously influenced for good by Jesus Soter; and the universe, to the surprise even of its Maker, became almost perfect. The Demiurge regretted even its slight imperfection, and as he thought himself the Supreme God, he attempted to remedy this by sending a Messias. To this Messias, however, was actually united Jesus the Saviour, Who redeemed men. These are either hulikoí, or pneumatikoí. The first, or carnal men, will return to the grossness of matter and finally be consumed by fire; the second, or psychic men, together with the Demiurge as their master, will enter a middle state, neither heaven (pleroma) nor hell (hyle); the purely spiritual men will be completely freed from the influence of the Demiurge and together with the Saviour and Achamoth, his spouse, will enter the pleroma divested of body (húle) and soul (psuché). In this most common form of Gnosticism the Demiurge had an inferior though not intrinsically evil function in the universe as the head of the psychic world. Here’s an excerpt of a typical Manichean hymn that has some relevance to the plot: > [@](#): > > T his whole World stands firm for a Season, since there is a > great Building being erected outside of the World, > At the Hour when its Architect shall complete it, > the entire World shall be dissolved. > It shall be set afire, that fire may melt it away. > > All Life, the Remnants of Light in every Place > he shall gather to himself and form of it a Statue. > Even the Resolution of Death also, the whole of the Darkness, > he shall gather in and make an image of itself > along with the Archon. > > In a moment the Living Spirit shall come. > It will succor the Light, > but the Resolution of Death and the Darkness > it shall lock away in the chamber > that was built for it > that it may lie in chains in it forever. > > […] > > A new Aeon shall be built in place of this World, > which shall be dissolved, > so that in the Powers of Light may reign > since they have performed and fulfilled the whole of the Fathers will. > They have overthrown the hateful one, they have defeated him forever. The Oracle is the entity which the Gnostics generally call _Sophia._ (Wisdom.) She is the “feminine”, nurturing, loving, intuitive aspect of divinity, in contrast to the hard-assed Demiurge. She wants to help bring gnosis to mankind, which doesn’t fit in with the Demiurge’s ego-tripping. > [@](#): > > Mary said to him: “Holy Lord, where did your disciples come from, and where are they going, and (what) should they do here?” > The Perfect Savior said to them: "I want you to know that Sophia, the Mother of the Universe and the consort, desired by herself to bring these to existence without her male (consort). But by the will of the Father of the Universe, that his unimaginable goodness might be revealed, he created that curtain between the immortals and those that came afterward, that the consequence might follow … … every aeon and chaos - that the defect of the female might \, and it might come about that Error would contend with her. [_–The Sophia of Jesus Christ_](http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/naghamm/sjc.html) Based on passing familiarity with the Gnostic gospels, I have a plot prediction for _Revolutions_: The Architect will kidnap the Oracle and shut her up in some impenetrable fortress from which Neo will have to rescue her. The [_Pistis Sophia_](http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/library/psoph1.htm) is largely an account of how Sophia is persecuted and imprisoned by the Demiurge and the agen… err, _aeons_ under his command. Her appeal to The One: > [@](#): > > O Light of Lights, I have believed in thee. Do not leave me in the darkness until the completion of my time. Help me and save me in thy mysteries. Incline thy ear to me and save me. Let the power of thy light save me and carry me to the aeons on high, for it is thou who savest me and takest me to the height of thy aeons. Save me, O Light, from the hand of this lion-faced power, and from the hands of the emanations of the deity, Authades. For thou, O Light, art the one in whose light I have believed and in whose light I have trusted from the beginning. And I have believed in it from the hour that it emanated me forth. And thou indeed art he who caused me to be emanated forth. And I have indeed believed in thy light from the beginning. And when I believed in thee, the archons of the aeons mocked me, saying : she has ceased in her mystery. It is thou who wilt save me. And thou art my Saviour. And thou art my mystery, O Light. My mouth has been filled with glory, so that I might tell the mystery of thy greatness at all times. . Now, O Light, do not leave me in the Chaos during the completion of my whole time. Do not abandon me, O Light. For my whole light-power has been taken away from me. And all the emanations of the Authades have surrounded me. They wanted to take all my light from me completely, and they watched for my power. Apart from all that… I thought it was neat that there was a sort of mosaic on the floor of the Architect’s mansion that depicted the denoument of the fight scene, with the conquering hero standing over the prone figure, holding the sword in the same position, suggesting that the Architect knew _exactly_ what was going to happen there when he built it. Cheap, but neat. (The mosaic is shown briefly when they do their big leap over the stairs down to the main floor.) [previews] The actress _died?!_ Bummer. They can’t leave the character out of the movie. It’ll be interesting to see how they work that out. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/87 "2003-05-16T19:52:34Z")
Geez, **Larry Mudd** , you seem to have put a lot of thought into this. I for one really appreciate your post, even though it’ll take me a while to take it all in. On a more mundane topic, [one really long review](http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=15220) says the following: > [@](#): > > He got hung up on the mention the Oracle makes of anomalies in the programming of the Matrix and how those glitches are what we see as vampires or ghosts or werewolves or aliens. He went on to complain about not seeing werewolves in the film. Personally, I can’t think of an idea I would have liked less. I took the Oracle’s meaning as a metaphorical one, a few examples of the many ways in which the fabric of this world can come undone. Maybe I completely misinterpreted the flim, but I thought we _did_ see werewolves and vampires and ghosts; they were Merovingian’s bodyguards and henchmen. The ones Persephone walks in on are werewolves, the Twins are clearly ghosts, and the rest of them with machine guns and tridents and pikes are various other monsters. Did anyone else not think this? Also I see I’ve posted to this thread 14 times, and the second most frequent poster posted 5 times. :o ---
**Author:** ![theendisnear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a4c791/32.png) [@theendisnear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theendisnear)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/88 "2003-05-16T19:58:18Z")
I don’t think the oracle knowing Neo’s dreams is proof that Zion is another Matrix. I just thought she knew it because of all the previous Ones have gone trough the same thing, she was just expecting him to have those dreams as the other guys did. ---
**Author:** ![Severian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Severian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Severian)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/89 "2003-05-16T19:59:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > \*\*Maybe I completely misinterpreted the flim, but I thought we _did_ see werewolves and vampires and ghosts; they were Merovingian’s bodyguards and henchmen. The ones Persephone walks in on are werewolves, the Twins are clearly ghosts, and the rest of them with machine guns and tridents and pikes are various other monsters. Did anyone else not think this? > \*\* I agree with you. I think it’s apparent Merovingian’s guards are the glitches the Oracle mentioned. Why else would Persephone need silver bullets? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/90 "2003-05-16T22:32:56Z")
I think the Xion Matrix is the original Matrix that was created and that within it’s own history it came to a similar point as the real world where the machines wanted to take over and so the Xion matrix created the Matrix we were introduced to in the original movie. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/91 "2003-05-16T22:46:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ratty \* > \*\* > Free will and fate are a huge point of this movie, but I can’t really see the brothers W going _1984_ at the end of it all. I’m thinking they’ll go for the _Akira_ ending. \*\* Neo will grow out of control and explode, destroying Zion and NeoTokyo? (Hey, I had to throw in Tokyo. It’s just not a movie if Tokyo doesn’t get destroyed somehow.) ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/92 "2003-05-17T00:27:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Asylum \* > **They’ll probably just get another actress to play her and have her claim that she’s in disguise or that she had the cyber equivalent of a makeover to explain why she looks different.** Or perhaps, if she’s only in a few scenes, they’ll recreate her image with the same CGI they used for the Neo vs. Smiths fight scene (betcha didn’t notice it was 100% CG) and just hire a voice actor. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/93 "2003-05-17T00:37:27Z")
I hope not, Mr. I thought the CGI fight looked very, very CGI. Particularly the swirling “fabric” of Neo’s clothing. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/94 "2003-05-17T00:52:40Z")
\*\* Gangster Octopus\*\*, that actually sounds plausible to me. Interesting, and good, call. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/95 "2003-05-17T00:58:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I agree with you. I think it’s apparent Merovingian’s guards are the glitches the Oracle mentioned. Why else would Persephone need silver bullets? I was hoping I wasn’t just making this up, too. A dead giveaway is that the two are watching a vampire movie on tv when Persephone busts in on them, and she says something about them being difficult to harm. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/96 "2003-05-17T01:19:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > The idea has potential for a MIBII-esque ending, revealing a near-infinite layering of ‘Matrixes’ Matrii. So much for me seeing MIBII. I think the OP meant no spoiler boxes for Matrix Reloaded, not all movies. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/97 "2003-05-17T01:22:31Z")
Here’s my take on the questions raised by the Matrix sequel. First off, I think Zion is the actual real world. I think this because if it weren’t the real world, why would they bother to use “physical” tools like the sentinels to destroy it? Why not just reboot the system the way Neo was supposed to do with the Matrix? I’ve heard people protest that “they use Agents with guns to kill people inside the Matrix” but that was to kill INDIVIDUALS. To reboot the system, they were going to use Neo opening a door. As for how Neo stopped the Sentinels: I think that he has been given, somehow, some measure of control over the machines due to his experience in the Core. I think this is meant to be slightly paranormal, but I don’t take it as a sign that Zion is another matrix. Second, the way I see it, the Ones were a control to reboot the program, but Neo was the first to walk away from the duty to preserve manking to make the choice of Hope: saving his lover and by extension, trusting to faith. Faith is a very important theme in these movies and it will wind up being the still-existent faith that the others have in Neo that saves them. I believe Zion will not fall. Finally, after seeing the movie, I find most of the criticisms I’ve heard about it very petty and nitpicky. The one that is true is that the Neo/Multiple Smiths fight is blatantly CGI and fakey. As for Neo not ripping apart Agents: he didn’t FACE ANY AGENTS in this movie. Smith was no longer an agent and could not be ripped apart in the same manner. He had become a computer virus. The others that Neo fought were also not Agents and possibly would have been harder to kill (note the silver bullet thing). Also, like others here, I find the criticism of not seeing the ghosts and vampires to be idiotic, given that two ghosts were key opponents in the movie, we saw a couple vampires and it could be argued that former Agent Smith is one of the rogue programs. Anyway, I very much enjoyed the movie and I’m looking forward to Revolutions. ---
**Author:** ![Severian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Severian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Severian)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/98 "2003-05-17T01:31:54Z")
Regarding the replication abilities of Agent Smith: Can he replicate at will, or does he need a host to copy himself into? Either way, he’s basically become a computer virus. What happens if he decides to replicate himself into every human being in the matrix? Could Smith reach a point where it would benefit both the machines and the Zionists to join forces against him? (I suppose this is getting away from the OP’s topic of _Reloaded_ discussion. Let me know if it would be better I create a separate thread.) ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/99 "2003-05-17T01:34:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RikWriter \* > As for Neo not ripping apart Agents: he didn’t FACE ANY AGENTS in this movie. Smith was no longer an agent and could not be ripped apart in the same manner. He had become a computer virus. The others that Neo fought were also not Agents and possibly would have been harder to kill (note the silver bullet thing). Neo did fight the three Agents briefly near the beginning of the film, but he noted that they had upgrades. Maybe he could tell they were immune to that kind of attack. I agree that Neo vs. Smiths clearly was CG, but it was orders of magnitude better than CG humans seen in any other film I can think of. And it was still very well choreographed. ---
**Author:** ![Severian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Severian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Severian)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374/100 "2003-05-17T01:35:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RikWriter \* > \*\* As for Neo not ripping apart Agents: he didn’t FACE ANY AGENTS in this movie. \*\* Yes he did. Wasn’t his comment regarding upgrades directed towards the agents he fought after the meeting in the first part of the film? My understanding was that he couldn’t rip them apart as he did Smith because they were upgraded programs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-reloaded-plot-discussion-spoilers-galore-no-spoiler-boxes/175374.md?page=6)