# Matrix: Revolutions (WARNING! Spoilers.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 5, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577 "2003-11-05T17:14:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![av8rmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/41 "2003-11-06T15:41:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chavardz \* > **I’ve got a couple of takes on this. First of all, to me it felt like the bros. wachowski just tried to cram a course on religious philosophy into three movies. Heavy on Judeo-Catholicism I might add. Neo was carried out arms stretched to his sides, face sideways and downwards and a sort of plataform. Anyone feel like this was Jesus crucified? Seraph was aparently Judas, wich is pretty obviuos since the Merovingian calls hime that.** I didn’t follow this. If Seraph is supposed to represent Judas, who is he betraying? The Oracle? By not protecting her from Smith? I was expecting a big fight scene where he bravely fends off wave after wave of Smiths, only to succumb at the last. Instead he and the little girl hide in a little room. I always thought the “Cypher-as-Judas” from the first movie was a more apt analogy. You have to be pretty thick not to see the “Neo-as-Christ-figure” symbolism, but I think it breaks down under its own weight. The Architect and Oracle as Mary & Joseph? Personally, I don’t believe that everything represents something. I agree with **Bryan Ekers** that the Wachowski’s (or whoever ended up writing the final script) thought that all they needed to do was provide enough mindless violence to get butts in the theater seats. Plot discussions are more interesting and creative than the movies could have ever been. Oh, and “spiky machine man face” shall henceforth be known as “MCP,” in which case he should have said, “end of line.” ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/42 "2003-11-06T16:03:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RikWriter \* > \*\*Well, my mind is made up now…I’m waiting for DVD. \*\* Well, I hope you’ve got a frickin’ huge wide screen TV and an awesome sound system. After all, the movie _is_ all about the spectacle after all. I suspect the Wachowski brothers were rather surprised at all the “deep meanings” that people read into the first movie. They were just having fun, you know? I saw the first movie many, many times and enjoyed it because it successfully (in my opinion) mixed two genres that I really like (sci-fi and kung fu) and had awesome eye-popping special effects to boot. I never forgot that it was primarily eye candy, though. Sadly, I think all the “deep meanings” that were read into the first film caused the Wachowski brothers to feel like they had to come up with some additional “deep meanings” of their own for the next two films. In this respect, they failed, but since I don’t care about any of that in the first place, my enjoyment of the second two films isn’t diminished. I was a bit disappointed in the second film, but only by (a) the obvious CGI work during the “Burley Brawl” and (b) the obnoxious “rave” scene that served no purpose as far as I could tell. The third film, however, has much improved SFX and no obnoxiously out-of-place scene like the rave, and therefore I think it is an excellent film on par with the first one. So, my advice is to see it once on the big screen for the spectacle and enjoy it for what it is. Then, if you must, get it on DVD so you can watch it over and over again and try to analyze the “deep meaning” that may or may not be there. Barry ---
**Author:** ![Lux\_Interior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@Lux\_Interior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lux_Interior)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/43 "2003-11-06T16:16:01Z")
> [@](#): > > When you get a good set of machines in, set off an EMP. Lather, rinse, repeat, as many times as necessary. Eventually the machines might figure out not to attack that way, but still. You could starve 'em out. > > Why the drilling? Why not attack at the weakest point of the dock, namely the doors? My useless theory: EMPs take out everything. Even other EMPs. They could only set off a few depending on how big Zion was (one would totally wipe out the dock). But eventually, they would run out and fresh machines would come in and wipe them out. Which is why they had to tunnel. The tunnels leading to the doors could be lined with lots of EMPs that are out of each others range. They might have enough time to recover and recharge them and possibly take out enough of the machines to win. This was they’re sixth destruction of Zion. As the Architecht said, they’ve gotten pretty good at it. ---
**Author:** ![Lux\_Interior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@Lux\_Interior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lux_Interior)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/44 "2003-11-06T16:20:36Z")
> [@](#): > > This was they’re sixth destruction of Zion. ahem… **their** ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/45 "2003-11-06T17:09:23Z")
**godzillatemple** : if it was all just for fun, why did they bother to put in so much symbolism in coherent patterns? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/46 "2003-11-06T17:24:50Z")
**TVAA** : Ever heard of the word “technobabble” before? The movie can’t be all special effects, after all… ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/47 "2003-11-06T17:26:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by godzillatemple \* > \*\*Well, I hope you’ve got a frickin’ huge wide screen TV and an awesome sound system. \*\* Thankfully, I do. 😃 Actually, now that we have the 57 inch Sony and the surround sound system, I prefer watching DVDs at home to going to the movies…I only go to see movies at the theatre that I just CAN’T wait to see, like ROTK or perhaps Spiderman 2. Others can wait for DVD now. ---
**Author:** ![beajerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@beajerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beajerry)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/48 "2003-11-06T17:37:58Z")
So LOTR wins as how to do a trilogy right. And the Matrix falls sadly into the Lucas-trap of eyecandy/story imbalance. The guys at PIXAR also know how to do it right: story first! eyecandy second! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/49 "2003-11-06T18:26:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by av8rmike \* > \*\* > Oh, and “spiky machine man face” shall henceforth be known as “MCP,” in which case he should have said, “end of line.” \*\* Actually, in one of the more clever bits, the credits have him listed as **Deus Ex Machina**. And personally, without going into any big analysis, I liked the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Goofus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7feea3/32.png) [@Goofus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goofus)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/50 "2003-11-06T18:26:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aasna \* > **_Sati_ is a Hindi word that is used to describe the (outlawed)practice of a Hindu widow immolating herself on her husband’s funeral pyre.** From the deleted scenes portion of the Revolutions DVD: Neo: “Do you believe in _sati_?” Rama: “_Sati_ is just a word.” ---
**Author:** ![Chavardz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@Chavardz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chavardz)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/51 "2003-11-06T18:29:42Z")
av8rmike You’re right about cypher as a better Judas figure. But they were TWO judas that were apostoles. Judas Iscariot and Judas . By the way, Judas Iscariot felt so guilty he killed himself. Neither Cypher no Seraph do so. When I posted above I apparently didn’t make it clear that I thought that the whole movie was a mix of different religions. I saw the catholic angle because that’s the one I know. I’m quite sure people of other religion will find other similarities. In fact I, as I believe I mentioned, found similarities with the Aztec religion, in the fact that they believed the world had to be destroyed and made anew in cycles, and that we are now living in the fifth cycle. On a side-note: yes I liked it, no I don’t take it too seriously, yes the effects are cool, no it’s not an original or grounbreaking plot. ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/52 "2003-11-06T18:41:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by godzillatemple \* > \*\ ***TVAA** : Ever heard of the word “technobabble” before? The movie can’t be all special effects, after all… \*\* But technobabble is generally meaningless. It’s clear that the Bros. built a great deal of religious and philosophical references into their movie. I disagree with your claim that it was never anything more than a smokescreen, although you’re entitled to your opinion about the significance of the hidden meanings. ---
**Author:** ![Chavardz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@Chavardz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chavardz)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/53 "2003-11-06T18:51:08Z")
Sorry, my second judas should have been Judas Lebbaeus A.K.A. Thadeous. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/54 "2003-11-06T19:29:33Z")
And once again the SDMB spends more time discussing the movie than they did writing it. 🙂 My take on the ending was that Neo realizes that Smith’s purpose is to kill him, and when Smith says “Every purpose has an end” Neo realizes that once Smith kills Neo, Smith’s “purpose” has ended - the Smith program is completed and now the Matrix can reset. I’m still unclear how Smith could have gotten to the machine world and threatened them. And I’m still pissed that the ghost twins weren’t used. ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/55 "2003-11-06T19:34:30Z")
I spent the last three days slowly reading through that 11 or 12 page thread on Reloaded. Some of the ideas were interesting, but at times I found myself saying, “how the hell are people reading so much into this?” Like someone else said, these are stylish sci-fi kung fu movies. Yes, there are messages, but not to the point that some seem to want to believe. Remembering that these are stylish sci-fi kung fu movies helps answer a lot of these questions. Why didn’t Neo go all “Scanners” on the Agent Smith copies in the Burly Brawl scene? It’s pretty easy to see why Neo didn’t use other powers. That wouldn’t fit in a kung fu movie, would it? Some (all?) of the fight scenes may have been over done if you are looking for realism, but since when are the fight scenes real in these kind of movies? In some ways, the Matrix movies had the most inoffensive fighting by wires that I have ever seen on the big screen. The characters were in the Matrix. They could defy physics. Say that about any other Jet Li movie. I will agree that there were plenty of holes in the plot. That’s the case in most sci-fi, be it Star Trek, Star Wars, Blade, or any other action type movie. Still, I can’t help but think that I lot of the people who don’t like this movie were going in hoping to find the meaning of life or something. I went in hoping for a good, stylish, sci-fi kung fu movie. I wanted to be entertained. To me, it delivered. I enjoyed just about all of this movie. I definitely enjoyed it better than Reloaded. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/56 "2003-11-06T19:34:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TVAA \* > **But technobabble is generally meaningless.** Indeed. > [@](#): > > **It’s clear that the Bros. built a great deal of religious and philosophical references into their movie.** Indeed. > [@](#): > > **I disagree with your claim that it was never anything more than a smokescreen** And it’s people like you who caused the Wachowski brothers to feel like they had to come up with some additional “deep meanings” of their own for the next two films. Too bad they weren’t up to the task. > [@](#): > > \*\*although you’re entitled to your opinion about the significance of the hidden meanings. \*\* Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Lux\_Interior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@Lux\_Interior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lux_Interior)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/57 "2003-11-06T19:41:56Z")
> [@](#): > > And I’m still pissed that the ghost twins weren’t used. Ah, but the twins they did use were spectacular. ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/58 "2003-11-06T19:44:57Z")
Yes, yes, we all know that Monica Bellucci has wonderful breasts… ---
**Author:** ![Chavardz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@Chavardz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chavardz)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/59 "2003-11-06T19:52:35Z")
But it’s never mentioned enough, godzillatemple. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/60 "2003-11-06T20:42:39Z")
She’s been added to my list now. Those puppies had to be taped in there… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577.md?page=4)