# Matrix: Revolutions (WARNING! Spoilers.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 5, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577 "2003-11-05T17:14:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/81 "2003-11-07T08:08:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dooku \* > \*\* > I’m still unclear how Smith could have gotten to the machine world and threatened them. > > \*\* It’s been pretty well established that the matrix technology allows the overwriting of the human brain. " I know Kung Fu". " I need a download to learn how to hotwire a motorcycle." Smith then took this to the next level and completely overwrit Bane’s brain. I highly doubt he had any connection to the Smiths in the matrix. Having said all that, I see it misses your question entirely because I mistook machine world for real world . 😛 I don’t think he _could_ have threatened the machine world except indirectly by rendering the matrix useless. Obviously he had no power when faced by the source directly. The source is the equivalent of god as far as the matrix is concerned, Smith didn’t stand a chance. The only thing allowing him to run rampant in the matrix was the source and the matrix being on different physical systems. One more thing. I think Neo got his powers in the first place by eating that cookie from the Oracle in the first movie. The Merovingian showed that food can have a great affect on a human in the matrix. The Oracle made that cookie especially to allow Neo to connect to the source gradually and gain the power to become the one. Creating the one is one of the ways that she unbalances the equations when it begins to look like it’s time for a reset. ---
**Author:** ![Chavardz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@Chavardz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chavardz)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/82 "2003-11-07T08:21:16Z")
I think Bane/Smith did have a connection to the other Smiths inside. As I recall Maggie, the dumb as bricks doctor, says that botha of them have the same wave pattern, one she recognizes as being that of a person jacked in. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/83 "2003-11-07T08:39:55Z")
As a minor note, I’m a little put off by the gate design. You blow away the chain and the gate _opens_? That’s odd. Given the siege-mentality of Zion, you’d think the gates would be such that you could (in an extreme emergency) destroy the chains and have the gates slam _shut_. ---
**Author:** ![DaPearl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@DaPearl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaPearl)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/84 "2003-11-07T08:54:03Z")
For all I don;t like about the _Matrix_ sequels, I gotta be honest: Some of it is bias because the sequals don’t have Joey Pants. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/85 "2003-11-07T08:57:35Z")
Saw it tonight. During the final fight scene, when Smith says something like, “Neo, everything that has a beginning must have an ending,” I leaned over to my date and said, “Except _this f_\*_ing fight scene._” Personally I thought this one had none of the wit, the personality, or the depth of the first one (I must admit I didn’t see the second one). This felt like they’d hired some formula-driven, strung out Hollywood hacks, shown them the characters, and said, “Write us a movie. You have a week.” My gal and I, neither of us having seen the film before, were literally leaning over and whispering the hackneyed lines to each other before the characters said them; it was that obvious. (Note: We were careful to keep our voices well below anything someone else could hear. Unlike the morons sitting behind us.) Sorry if I offend; I liked the first one OK, but was never as enthralled with it as some, but honestly I think that to enjoy this one, you had to go in planning on loving it. ---
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/86 "2003-11-07T11:22:56Z")
I didn’t think too much about the ‘message’ and liked the spectacle. I do think that some movies should provoke thought after you leave the cinema and some should be enjoyable for what they are - the 2 sequels got the balance of this all wrong. Joey Pants - yes, Monica Bellucci - a waste of her character, the guards at the club - 1st time we see this ability - and they’re hat-check guys?? The cod philosophy I could live without and the first 30-40 minutes assumed you’d just pressed stop on the dvd of reloaded; but my biggest gripe was this type of exchange;- ‘I have to leave’ ‘I’m coming with you’ ‘I don’t think I’ll be coming back’ ‘Shush you big dummy - don’t come over all shmooshy on me now’ ‘Link you came back!’ ‘I made a promise honey, a man keeps his promise to his number one squeeze’ well that kind of thing if not that exactly. And without doubt the most egregious and disgusting fuckup to be allowed into the script - ‘I’m scared Trin’ ‘TRIN???’ WTF??? why didn’t they have ‘Its been a privelige Morph’ ‘TRIN’!! oh and another thing when the kid announces war is over - i see the spreading of the word allegory but, if i was Link for instance I think my response would have been ‘Fuck off out of there kid we’re waiting for important news - get someone in authority’ I liked it because of these things, and because they think putting words like ‘karma’ ‘concordant’ and ‘spoon’ make for good scripts. Last thing - I never understood why the spoon benders in the 1st movie were watching ‘THE NIGHT OF THE LEPUS’ on tv. I love that movie - giant man-eating rabbits terrorise a midwest town. Its not the most obvious choice but an intriguing one. ---
**Author:** ![Lux\_Interior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@Lux\_Interior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lux_Interior)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/87 "2003-11-07T12:42:25Z")
> [@](#): > > The Mjolnir (hammer is it’s nickname, I guess, as Link does call it that) I didn’t catch that. I only heard them call it Hammer. But that makes sense, since Mjolnir is the name of Thor’s hammer. > [@](#): > > At least her character [Persephone] had a point in the last one (i.e. helping Morpheus and the Morpheites get the Keymaker). Her role in this one was to say that Trinity was in love and was willing to die for that love. And display the twins! ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/88 "2003-11-07T13:07:28Z")
Quick points: I presume you’ve all realized the significance of the Oracle’s cookies, yes? (Hee hee hee… that’s _so_ awful it makes my head hurt…) Remember, kiddies, never accept cookies from strange programs. The Zionists were convinced that it was impossible for one of the programs to enter a human being that wasn’t hardwired to their system. That’s the primary reason they didn’t recognize Bane as Smith: they simply couldn’t conceive of the possibility, since it contradicted everything they “knew”. They instead presumed Bane had simply gone mad. One last thing: indeed, no matter what Neo chose, Trinity was going to die. She’s a human being, with a finite lifespan. Human beings come and go, but it’s humanity that endures. Ultimately Neo understood that choosing Trinity over humanity is the wrong thing to do… because ultimately Trinity can’t _be_ saved. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/89 "2003-11-07T14:02:06Z")
To Stop the “Why didn’t they use the Gates” posts… because there would be no surprise ! By excavating they could bring way more Sentinels than thru those bobby trapped passages. Element of surprise (spoiled by the Osiris - If you didn’t see Animatrix please leave this thread !) ``` Almost no one is mentioning the Oracle saying that she was there to make things more chaotic and unpredictable. (forgot the exact words). Machines would eventually run themselves into some sort of "no way out" situation without human randomness and emotionally driven decisions. The Oracle and her counterpart the Architect exist to balance these two different drives. ``` ---
**Author:** ![WIGGUM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@WIGGUM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WIGGUM)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/90 "2003-11-07T14:13:55Z")
I wasn’t really that impressed overall with this movie. With that being said though, one sequence actually gave me goosebumps. I loved it when Neo and Trinity fly above the clouds and there is blue sky and the sun is shining, and Trinity remarks, “It’s beautiful” only to drop back down into hell below. I realize that she’s seen the sun before in “The Matrix”, but to actually see it with her own eyes was something else entirely and something that no other human in Zion could claim to have done. Classic moment. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/91 "2003-11-07T14:43:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rubystreak \* > …[\*\*W]as Neo’s fate to save both Zion and the machine city an unavoidable one? Because it strikes me that despite the fact that he seemingly chose NOT to comply with the Architect’s wish for him to reboot the Matrix, in order to save Trinity, in the end he rebooted the Matrix and Trinity died anyway. I don’t believe so. I am not a very big fan of determinism because the utility of an illusion of choice seems to be zero. If I can’t change what I do anyway, why have the illusion of choice? But it is still possible, of course, and the Architect only wanted to guide Neo on a path _he_ knew would reboot the Matrix. Though the Architect had no say in the matter, either. One wonders, though, why this oscillation had a predestined Neo make a different choice than every other One that was similarly (one presumes) predestined. > [@](#): > > Neo never really had a choice; either door he picked led to the exact same outcome. Hardly! In one, the human and machine worlds oscillate like a periodic function. In the one Neo chose, the war ends and a new way of living emerges. > [@](#): > > OR, he did know and was worried when Neo went left b/c of the threat posed by Smith, which could have been avoided if Neo rebooted the Matrix immediately. That’s a good question, but I’d be inclined to say that they didn’t know Smith would happen. Smith’s appearance seemed linked to two events: one, that Neo entered him to destroy him (so Neo thinks), and two, that the Matrix is not rebooted when Neo enters the Architect’s room. If the first event doesn’t happen, then Smith is never “infected” or altered. If the second event doesn’t happen, then the Matrix is rebooted, and Smith with it. Taking the Architect at his word, then, we see that each previous incarnation had The One reboot the Matrix. Perhaps, as far as the machines even knew, Smith was destroyed. > [@](#): > > My thesis, however, is that his choice was an illusion and that he was compelled, inevitably, to fulfill his role, just as any good program must. Belief, in this case, was necessary only to further the illusion of choice, because the outcome was ineluctable. And the necessity of the illusion? ---
**Author:** ![RGillen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@RGillen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RGillen)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/92 "2003-11-07T14:58:29Z")
I gathered from a few scenes (the first conversation with the new Oracle, the Merovingian’s club) that Seraph somehow betrayed or failed the Oracle in between the last movie and this. Because of that, the Merovingian punished her somehow (for helping the Keymaker get away) and caused her to need a new “shell”, which is the reason for her new appearance. I even remember somebody saying that for some reason (the new shell, maybe?), Seraph could not protect her anymore and she would need someone else. Is there some story I’ve missed? Did a subplot get edited out? I haven’t seen any of the Animatrix besides what was free on the website (sorry, **Rashak Mani** ) and I haven’t played the video game either. Did anyone else hear what I did in the same way? Seraph and Merv are my new favorite characters - probably because there’s still some mystery about them. Also, I understood the train to be an unsanctioned link (back door) between the machine mainframe and the Matrix. Sati’s parents were smuggling her _into_ the Matrix where she would live as an exile like the Merovingian & pals. I think the idea was to show us that the machines aren’t all bad and the Matrix will still have a purpose after the war is over. ---
**Author:** ![mudpupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@mudpupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mudpupper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/93 "2003-11-07T15:13:11Z")
I am still left wondering how Neo really got his powers outside of the matrix. This point bothers me quite a bit. Without a good explanation on that, the movie became a little over the top. Before, it was simple for a person to image himself as the one, using the rules of the matrix to perform super feats. Now, they added an element that Neo has superpowers and the movie lost a little bit of its charm to me. ---
**Author:** ![Chavardz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@Chavardz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chavardz)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/94 "2003-11-07T15:15:15Z")
The kid that announces the war is over is actually introduced to the plot in “the kid’s story” on the Animatrix DVD. If you get the allegory, than you have to understand it was supposed to be meaningful. To add to the why not the gates, I got the feeling in the Animatrix that the gates were well guarded, which is why the machines didn’t attack that way. ---
**Author:** ![Chavardz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@Chavardz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chavardz)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/95 "2003-11-07T15:20:16Z")
Mudppuper: he didn’t have super power outsied the matrix. He had a connection to the machines, he only saw the machines and Bane. He could make the machines explode, and then only the mines, he obviusly had more problems with the calamaris. ---
**Author:** ![mudpupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@mudpupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mudpupper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/96 "2003-11-07T15:33:09Z")
Chavardz - I guess you’re right that he didn’t have “super powers” outside the matrix. I’m just wanting a better explanation on why the one had a connection to the machines from outside the matrix. Just saying so didn’t satisfy me. I wanted a better technical explanation. A simple, the Oracle fed him a cookie program would even suffice for me. ---
**Author:** ![Chavardz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@Chavardz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chavardz)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/97 "2003-11-07T15:44:25Z")
Mudppuper: To quote the merovingian (sorta) “I am however, interested in finding out how he did it. (looks at trin) Do you know?” Trin:“No” Merv:“No, of course not” Sums it up nicely. Sorta like a Deus ex machina. “Hey, there’s no explanation for this” “Well, say it’s not known, and then you don’t have to explain it.” In a movie that uses the human as batteries story as a mayor plot line, can you really be upset about that? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/98 "2003-11-07T16:22:28Z")
I strongly dislike movies that explain everything for you. My favorite movies are the ones that make you think. If every little thing was explained, the dialogue would be [more] attrocious and the story would be really uninteresting, IMO. Too many movies nowadays explain everything away. I find it insulting to watch good stories and have the writers assume I am too dumb to understand or digest it. I like being an active participant rather than a passive member of a target audience. MHO. The most recent example I’ve found was the movie Identity. An excellent, compelling movie, except for the tiny bit that they made sure to explain every little strange thing that happened and wrapped it up in a boring package. The last 20 minutes or so completely ruined any redeeming quality that movie had for me. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/99 "2003-11-07T16:26:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beajerry \* > \*\*So LOTR wins as how to do a trilogy right. > \*\* Lord of the Rings isn’t a trilogy. Try again please. And you say that therefore no trilogy has ever been done right? What about the original Star Wars? People may not like the prequels, but they are a _seperate_ trilogy. How they directly deminish the old trilogy is beyond my comprehension. Trilogy = 3, not 6 ---
**Author:** ![Esan\_Nigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Esan\_Nigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esan_Nigma)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577/100 "2003-11-07T16:33:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Soapbox Monkey \* > **Lord of the Rings isn’t a trilogy. Try again please.** The movies, I believe, will be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matrix-revolutions-warning-spoilers/211577.md?page=6)