# Matt Gaetz being investigated for sex with 17 year old girl (DOJ declines to charge 2023-02-15) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 30, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052 "2021-03-30T22:13:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2022, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/604 "2022-01-31T13:22:25Z")
I guess he will stay until he’s indicted or behind bars ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/605 "2022-02-27T19:10:18Z")
> **[Matt Gaetz, reportedly under investigation for sex trafficking, attacks DoJ](https://ca.news.yahoo.com/matt-gaetz-reportedly-under-investigation-133423246.html)** > > Florida congressman has denied any wrongdoing Three or four juicy quotes at end of article. _Tinder Swindler?_ Swindler’s List? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/606 "2022-02-27T19:41:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Breaking: A key witness in the sex trafficking case against Matt Gaetz has pleaded guilty. In exchange, he has promised to fully cooperate with prosecutors. Either the Daily Beast doesn’t know what “in exchange” means, or the prosecution team are the best negotiators EVER. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/607 "2022-02-27T19:55:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Either the Daily Beast doesn’t know what “in exchange” means, or the prosecution team are the best negotiators EVER. My suspicion would be that the guy pled guilty to a lesser charge, in exchange for cooperating. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/608 "2022-02-27T20:26:08Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > My suspicion would be that the guy pled guilty to a lesser charge, in exchange for cooperating. And/or they will make a recommendation to the judge for lenience in sentencing. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/609 "2022-02-28T03:21:04Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > And/or they will make a recommendation to the judge for lenience in sentencing. I would never trust that. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/610 "2022-02-28T04:38:02Z")
You’re not looking a long stretch in prison in the face. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/611 "2022-02-28T04:40:43Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > You’re not looking a long stretch in prison in the face.   If your deal is to plead to a lesser charge, then at least you know what you may be in for. If your deal is simply that the prosecutor will recommend a more lenient sentence, there’s no guarantee the prosecutor won’t turn around and double-cross you, and even if he recommends a light sentence, the judge can still give you a tougher sentence if he sees fit. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/612 "2022-02-28T04:43:00Z")
True, but when they have you by the short and curlys and pleading to a lesser charge is not the offer you have… ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/613 "2022-02-28T15:13:48Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > If your deal is simply that the prosecutor will recommend a more lenient sentence, there’s no guarantee the prosecutor won’t turn around and double-cross you, and even if he recommends a light sentence, the judge can still give you a tougher sentence if he sees fit. Your deal with the prosecutor is in writing. They can’t double cross you. You’re right about the judge having complete discretion to ignore it. (however, although it happens, it’s pretty rare. Judges have a motive to keep things running smoothly and that requires plea deals. If they started ignoring the agreements, you’d see a lot less deals.) ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/614 "2022-02-28T15:24:43Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > If your deal is simply that the prosecutor will recommend a more lenient sentence, there’s no guarantee the prosecutor won’t turn around and double-cross you, and even if he recommends a light sentence, the judge can still give you a tougher sentence if he sees fit. I’d also imagine that it would hurt his toolset if he actually did so, since it would get around that he couldn’t be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/615 "2022-02-28T18:56:05Z")
Is a prosecutor allowed to confer with the judge before making the “we’ll ask for leniency on your behalf” deal? Or is it more about prosecutors having an implicit understanding of a particular judge’s likelihood of honoring a given recommendation? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/616 "2022-02-28T19:01:58Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Is a prosecutor allowed to confer with the judge before making the “we’ll ask for leniency on your behalf” deal? No. Ex parte contact is not allowed. > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Or is it more about prosecutors having an implicit understanding of a particular judge’s likelihood of honoring a given recommendation? Yes, in most courthouses, the judges’ general approach are fairly well known. A defendant would certainly take into account the reputation of the sentencing judge before a plea is entered. (but, beware, cases can be reassigned) In general, Judges tend to accept plea recommendations in order to keep the pleas flowing. Exceptions are not unheard of, especially in unusual cases. Defendants are well aware that a judge could hammer them, but are usually reluctantly willing to take that risk. (given the fact that a conviction after trial will almost always result in a harsher sentence) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/617 "2022-02-28T19:10:55Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > (but, beware, cases can be reassigned) Is there any recourse for a defendant if that happens? If my lawyer tells me (correctly) that Judge Friendly can be counted on for leniency, but then after I enter my plea my case is reassigned to Judge Frowny and he throws the book at me? Maybe I’ve been charged with operating an illegal lemonade stand and Judge Frowny is known to have zero tolerance for lemonade bootleggers. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/618 "2022-02-28T19:19:21Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Is there any recourse for a defendant if that happens? It would depend on the local rules I suppose. In my jurisdiction, such reassignment was very rare (and usually didn’t change things much) but I don’t recall anything we could have done about it. I suppose there could be a rule somewhere that the defendant has a right to the sentencing judge assigned at the time of the plea being entered, and provide for withdraw of the plea if the original judge died, or was otherwise removed from the case. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/619 "2022-02-28T19:38:17Z")
Thanks for the answers! ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/620 "2022-02-28T19:54:50Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Your deal with the prosecutor is in writing. They can’t double cross you. You’re right about the judge having complete discretion to ignore it. (however, although it happens, it’s pretty rare Precisely what happened to another statutory rapist, Roman Polanski. Facing 6 charges, the deal was plead guilty to one and have the other 5 dropped, with the sentence for the one charge to be time served. The judge privately said to others “screw that, I’m gonna give him 50 years”. Polanski heard that and left the country before sentencing. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/621 "2022-03-01T16:50:44Z")
I’m fairly sure the same thing happened to Marc Rich, one of Bill Clinton’s pardonees. He was offered and took a plea deal which a subsequent judge threw out. Rich happened to be out of the country when he was informed the deal was off. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/622 "2022-03-01T18:27:39Z")
A judge may refuse to accept a plea agreement or even an agreed sentence, but it is pretty rare in my experience (only happened once in my six years as a prosecutor, out of hundreds and hundreds of cases). The prosecutor and defense counsel may also meet with the judge ahead of time, explain the plea and proposed sentence, and see if the judge is amenable to that. Far more often than not, if the proposal is at all reasonable, she will be. ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/623 "2022-03-04T19:12:21Z")
I suspect that the likelihood of a judge rejecting a plea deal is very strongly correlated with how high-profile the case is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052.md?page=32)