# Matt Gaetz being investigated for sex with 17 year old girl (DOJ declines to charge 2023-02-15) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 30, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052 "2021-03-30T22:13:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/141 "2021-04-03T12:44:50Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > here is now apparently evidence in the hands of federal investigators that Greenberg procured the services of prostitutes for Gaetz, with some below Florida’s age of consent. Wasn’t it more like “sugar babies,” young (very young, sometimes) women who advertised their willingness to provide companionship to generous men? Perhaps go on trips and stay in hotels with them? Admittedly there’s a fine line between that and prostitution. So fine as to be sometimes invisible. But the dodge would be that these women are just providing companionship to generous men. More of a “mistress” arrangement. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/142 "2021-04-03T13:01:22Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Well, did he transport her? Buying her a plane ticket would be considered transporting her, counselor. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/143 "2021-04-03T13:19:24Z")
Cipolla’s First Law of Stupidity: " **Law 1: Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.**" From the excellent essay on stupidity found at [https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-five-universal-laws-of-human-stupidity?utm\_source=pocket-newtab](https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-five-universal-laws-of-human-stupidity?utm_source=pocket-newtab) This essay explains why the fight against ignorance may be futile. Perhaps it is grist for a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/144 "2021-04-03T13:36:50Z")
If they are under the age of consent, it doesn’t really matter if they were paid at all, in money, in apartment leases, or in Barbie dolls. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/145 "2021-04-03T14:06:36Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I skipped to the end, and, of course it is far from admirable, but isn’t sex with a 17 year old _legal_ in New York? > [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m an attorney but didn’t get a full statement of the facts… But before dropping a wet blanket on a topic, don’t you read something about the subject, or at least skim the thread? (Anyone picturing a lawyer walking into a courtroom and asking “So, what’s this case about? And which side am I on? Well, geez, your honor, give me a break, I haven’t had a chance to read anything. So, where do I sit, at this table, or over here with this guy?”) Guess I’m a little disappointed. When I saw you’d posted, I was assuming we’d get a legal perspective, and I would’ve liked to hear your take on Gaetz and his situation. But not just “Ehhh, no big deal, did he really do anything wrong?” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/146 "2021-04-03T14:19:19Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Admittedly there’s a fine line between that and prostitution. No, there isn’t. Sugar babies are salaried prostitutes, nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/147 "2021-04-03T14:20:06Z")
Not seeing it in this thread, thank God, but can I just come in here and complain about the phrase ‘underaged prostitutes’ which I keep seeing in press reports: _Matt Gaetz was not consorting with underaged prostitutes. He was raping teenagers._ Allegedly, but I’ve been on this planet long enough to know the difference between smoke and fire. There are just moments which occur that shift the paradigm and brings context to a lot of clues\* which were out there but no one really wanted to put together, kinda like the Savile story early last decade. This Gaetz story? Everyone is like slapping their heads saying ‘yeah, of course!’ no one is saying ‘no, not _Matt_! Not that guy!’ \*\* [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51087745586_4474b786e5_b.jpg "2021-04-01\_07-58-54") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/51087745586/) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/148 "2021-04-03T14:28:10Z")
Lol, now I see it. Thanks, @UltraVires, for not disappointing! [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51091962837_b8858b7125_z.jpg "5496v0") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/51091962837/) ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/149 "2021-04-03T14:33:12Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > CNN is reporting that Gaetz showed off naked photos of a woman he allegedly slept with, to people on the floor of the House. I would pay money to see the following on video: Reporter: Rep. Gaetz, do you consider yourself to be a gentleman? Gaetz: Yes. Reporter: Whatever happened to “A gentleman never kisses and tells”? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/150 "2021-04-03T14:34:22Z")
I could be wrong, but if I recall correctly, legally speaking, “I thought she was 18” is not considered a valid defense in cases of underaged sex crimes. Perhaps a prosecutor would be willing to cut some slack if someone like Gaetz could establish a good faith effort to verify age and was somehow tricked, but that’s not what usually happens. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/151 "2021-04-03T14:40:01Z")
Well, IANAL, but even if sex with a 17 year-old is technically legal within a state, if someone uses interstate communications to set up a sexual encounter across state lines, and then travels across state lines for the purposes of performing the sexual act, it becomes a matter of federal jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/152 "2021-04-03T14:45:41Z")
Closed on April 3, 2021, 2:45pm UTC ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/153 "2021-04-03T14:46:04Z")
Warning and 1 day suspension for UltraVires > [@UltraVires](#): > > I skipped to the end, and, of course it is far from admirable, but isn’t sex with a 17 year old _legal_ in New York? > [@UltraVires](#): > > Well, did he transport her? I’m an attorney but didn’t get a full statement of the facts, so I would appreciate holding off on the personal attack. This is pretty much trolling. Combined with the your recent warning and other activity of late I am suspending you for a day while bumping this up to the mod loop. I’ll be adding more to this post later. Thread will reopen shortly. ETA: [Warning this morning](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-u-s-capitol-building-on-lockdown-attempt-to-drive-car-into/939248/24) for [Breaking News Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-u-s-capitol-building-on-lockdown-attempt-to-drive-car-into/939248/19) and lighter trolling in ATMB & [GD](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-constitutional-to-give-black-and-indigenous-people-vaccine-priority/939246/34). I should also make it clear, this line “so I would appreciate holding off on the personal attack.” played by the troll before a personal attack, made the decision to jump to 1 day suspension easy. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/154 "2021-04-03T14:59:32Z")
Opened on April 3, 2021, 2:59pm UTC ---
**Author:** ![Kelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@Kelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/155 "2021-04-03T15:19:45Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > > [@Cervaise](#): > > > > here is now apparently evidence in the hands of federal investigators that Greenberg procured the services of prostitutes for Gaetz, with some below Florida’s age of consent. > > Wasn’t it more like “sugar babies,” young (very young, sometimes) women who advertised their willingness to provide companionship to generous men? Perhaps go on trips and stay in hotels with them? > > Admittedly there’s a fine line between that and prostitution. So fine as to be sometimes invisible. But the dodge would be that these women are just providing companionship to generous men. More of a “mistress” arrangement. I guess I have a different definition of the word “generous”. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/156 "2021-04-03T15:22:34Z")
He has also been showing off nude pictures of the women he had slept with to other congressmen. (I originally typed congresspeople, but then I realized that there was no reason for that to be gender neutral.) Which means that there is a pretty good chance that he’s also been trafficking in underage pornography. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/157 "2021-04-03T15:56:47Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > The _federal_ age of consent is 18. If the person is under 18 and considered a minor in one state for the purpose of sexual consent, and you transport that person to another state with a lower age of consent solely for the purpose of sexual relations, you trip federal jurisdiction. This is a Mann Act violation. I’m surprised, as an attorney, you were not aware of this. It’s more complicated than this. The age of consent in Federal jurisdictions is 16, not 18, ([18 USCode 2243](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2243)), and the old Mann Act language about “for immoral purposes” was long ago replaced by more specific language. Transporting for purposes of _commercial_ sexual activity is a federal crime under the [PROTECT Act of 2003](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2423), but consensual sexual activity isn’t necessarily. Paying for hotel rooms and airfare would _probably_ trip the commercial wire, though, depending on how explicit the quid pro quo really was. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/158 "2021-04-03T16:27:49Z")
Thank you **slash2k** , for the more detailed info as to what may be involved on the federal level (really I was puzzled UV took that flip approach on a legal matter). It _ **is** _ worthwhile to bring up the “legal technicalities” because that is what someone gets prosecuted and convicted for, not just for “Ewwww, What a creep”. The latter does and can jeopardize your _political_ future and that’s more than fair game in the case of someone like Gaetz. But the law helps us understand if/why he may get or not get charged with something, and with what. And may I restate one of my constant cries in these forums, _ **explanation is not justification** _ nobody’s defending him. (And all that’s entirely aside from the issue as to whether our system is going to slap the “trafficking” tag on anything involving sex & money. Plus of course if it will be enforced equitably.) It does seem like there is a combination of many different things going down, it’s gonna be fascinating to unravel. As to any replacement at the post, yeah, that district is safe Hard R. All you’d be cleaning up would be individual morals and mental state issues, not despicable ideological postures (and as we have seen in a couple of other seats, mental state gets a pass easily). ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/159 "2021-04-03T16:39:31Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > No, there isn’t. Sugar babies are salaried prostitutes, nothing else. Well, sure. And believe me, I have nothing to say in defense of that loathsome little shit Matt Gaetz. But (and I realize that the allegations against Gaetz involve federal charges of transporting a minor, and I don’t think prostitution really comes into it) it’s perfectly legal for a man to set a woman up in an apartment, pay her rent, give her lots of “gifts” and have sex with her. It’s not legal to offer her a bunch of cash for a sex act. As far as the law is concerned, those are different things. Of course, as far as reality is concerned, there’s not that much difference, except that one woman has better business model. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052/160 "2021-04-03T17:31:53Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Is there any “good” here aside from the schadenfreude of seeing a particularly noxious GOP rep go down in flames? Dunno if this counts as ‘good’, but notice the name ‘Cuomo’ has disappeared from the front page. As if, no matter how bad Dems are, Repubs can always outdo them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-gaetz-being-investigated-for-sex-with-17-year-old-girl-doj-declines-to-charge-2023-02-15/939052.md?page=9)