# Matt Walsh: Climate alarmists, I can’t take you seriously until you start living like the Amish **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 2, 2017, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702 "2017-05-02T08:30:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/81 "2017-05-03T07:05:13Z")
Barn raisings are a cherished tradition in the Amish culture. They symbolize acts of selflessness and assisting one’s family, neighbors, and community. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/82 "2017-05-03T07:06:53Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > This is definitely an example of the not very elusive\* cameronus incogitatus\*. DerekMichaels is the sock currently posting that women find men’s junk disgusting. > > Compare the two OP’s quoted below. Both begin with some tweet-driven nonsense about someone identified as a liberal who nobody’s heard of tweeting something and continues with a series of links about internet RO about it, and ends with a challenge for SDMB liberals to speak up about it. > > Notice the introductory phrase “As I’m sure those of you who haven’t been living under a cave are aware…” in post A and “Those of you over the age of, oh, 16 months will immediately recognize…” in post B. > > At the end of each, the ravenous cameronus pleads for the food he craves: “But why are we hearing crickets from the feminist Left on this issue? Seriously? … To anyone who disagrees with me, I’d love to hear your arguments on this.”, and: “Are there any liberals here willing to stand up and call out this shameful race-baiting…” > > In summary, he is asking for Amish recipes. You are persuasive. Here is an older Amish recipe for Apple Crisp. 8 tart apples, peeled and sliced (Courtland, Macintosh, or your choice) cup orange juice 1 cup sugar, divided in half 1/2 teaspoon cinnamon 3/4 cup all-purpose flour 1/2 teaspoon salt 6 tablespoons margarine or butter Place the sliced apples in an 8″ x 8″ ungreased pan. Pour the orange juice over the apples. Mix 1/2 cup sugar and the cinnamon together, and sprinkle over apples. Work the remaining 1/2 cup sugar, flour, salt, and margarine or butter together using your fingers or a pastry cutter. Mixture should be crumbly, pea size or smaller Spread over the apples and pat smooth. Bake at 375 degrees for 40–45 minutes until crust is crisp and brown and apples are tender. Serve with milk or cream. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/83 "2017-05-03T07:16:27Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Here is an older Amish recipe for Apple Crisp. Mmm Apple Crisp… I love Amish recipes because they are simple, hearty and easy to make. Also, many of the recipes use basic ingredients that you probably already have in your pantry. Interesting thing about the main ingredient in those apple crisp - it is actually a staple of Amish cuisine. The apple is an important Pennsylvania Dutch food and found in many Amish recipes. Dried apples form the basis for many typical dishes. Each fall barrels of apples are converted into cider. Apple butter is one of the Pennsylvania Dutch foods which has found national popularity. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/84 "2017-05-03T07:46:55Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > This is stupid. > > I could go in more depth as to why, but I’m not gonna. This is just stupid. Yep. I was going to try to illustrate why it’s stupid with analogous “If you believe X, then you must do Y, otherwise you’re a hypocrite” examples. But the article is its own reductio ad absurdum. I can’t do any better than: _If this argument worked, it would mean people who believe climate change is a significant problem should all go live like the Amish_. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/85 "2017-05-03T08:07:18Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well that’s true. I’m drinking Bud Lite … They don’t have tap water where you live? How about Coors? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_White\_Dope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/22d042/32.png) [@Great\_White\_Dope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_White_Dope)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/86 "2017-05-03T08:29:03Z")
It’s not just that they’re not living Amish-like atechnology lives, it’s that many are doing the _exact opposite_ – living lives of modern luxury, with immense carbon footprints. We’re talking limos, jets, and enormous homes (I wonder how they afford those . . .), etc. These are not the actions of those sincere in their beliefs. And what about those climate change alarmists, like Bill Nye, who are open to the idea of criminal prosecution for climate change skeptics? If skepticism is the foundation of good science, and it is, and yet climate alarmists want to criminalize skepticism, then this strongly supports the thesis that climate change isn’t actual science. This is a simple, obvious, straightforward truth, ladies and gentlemen. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/87 "2017-05-03T08:34:49Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > All right, if you hold this point, it should be no problem for you to point to peer-reviewed literature making predictions you consider “hysterical” that ended up being wrong. Hell, if you want, you can even include the IPCC, even though it isn’t peer-reviewed. > > (Discounting, of course, ones where the prediction in question was wrong because we specifically took action to mitigate it - such as the “global cooling” papers from the 1970s, whose predictions were wrong because we took a concerted, global effort to tamp down the aerosol pollution responsible for the predicted cooling.) > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Similarly, I welcome you to cite the emails from the Climategate “scandal” which you feel show “peer review corruption” or “data manipulation”. I assume you can provide them in context, with your explanation of what you think the emails _mean_, so as to avoid the kind of stupid mistake FOX News made where they saw “hide the decline” and thought the climatologists were talking about a decline in global temperatures, rather than a decline in proxy data due to a well-known problem with dendrochronology; and that they were trying to hide something from us, rather than publicly and openly discussing their methods in the publicly-available peer-reviewed paper they were discussing in private. 🙂 **Dope** , may I assume that no citations or answers will be forthcoming? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_White\_Dope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/22d042/32.png) [@Great\_White\_Dope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_White_Dope)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/88 "2017-05-03T08:42:42Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > (Discounting, of course, ones where the prediction in question was wrong because we specifically took action to mitigate it - such as the “global cooling” papers from the 1970s, whose predictions were wrong because we took a concerted, global effort to tamp down the aerosol pollution responsible for the predicted cooling.) Ah, yes, the infamous _post hoc rationalization_, the go-to solution for the pseudoscience supporter with egg on their shameless face. All of those badly-missed climate alarmist predictions weren’t examples of bad science. No, sir. All of those doomsday predictions would’ve come true, if not for the heroic actions of climate scientists, the real-life Justice League. All of those psychics with failed predictions? Yeah . . . those weren’t really failed predictions. You see, by telling us the future, physics allow us to alter it. When the psychic tells you you’re going to die in a plane crash at the age of 24, and then you don’t die in a plane crash at the age of 24, you didn’t die because the psychic’s forewarning allowed you to evade said plane crash death. The psychic isn’t a charlatan, he’s a hero. . . . see how ridiculous that sounds? Yeah. That’s the exact same silly “logic” you’re using to explain away climate alarmists’ failures. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/89 "2017-05-03T09:01:45Z")
[_Eppure si riscalda…_](https://xkcd.com/1732/) ---
**Author:** ![Great\_White\_Dope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/22d042/32.png) [@Great\_White\_Dope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_White_Dope)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/90 "2017-05-03T09:14:11Z")
The beautiful irony of all of this is that, if anthropogenic climate change is true, it’s because of science and technology. It’s science and technology which gave us better health and medicine (not to mention easier access to said health and medicine), which lead to overpopulation, and it’s science and technology which have gave us dramatically increased carbon footprints. We’ve all heard the talks of the dangers of religion, yet it’s the rise of science and technology which has put humanity on the brink of extinction, according to climate alarmists. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/91 "2017-05-03T09:27:37Z")
> [@Great\_White\_Dope](#): > > Ah, yes, the infamous _post hoc rationalization_, the go-to solution for the pseudoscience supporter with egg on their shameless face. > > All of those badly-missed climate alarmist predictions weren’t examples of bad science. No, sir. All of those doomsday predictions would’ve come true, if not for the heroic actions of climate scientists, the real-life Justice League. It’s entirely possible that certain climate models fail miserably on their own merits. Hell, I’ll give you a freebie: [Richard Lindzen’s climate model is far, far below the actual temperature](https://skepticalscience.com/comparing-global-temperature-predictions.html). Given that this one has a hindcast as well, it’s impossible to say that it fails because of predictions Lindzen made that didn’t hold up. That model sucks. Similarly, [this one by William Kellogg is just… weird](https://skepticalscience.com/lessons-from-past-climate-predictions-kellogg.html). Way, way above the actual temps, and containing a few noteworthy methodological errors. These models fail not due to failing to predict what the conditions of the future are, but because they get their methodology wrong. The problem is that climate predictions are inherently rather unstable, because we can’t perfectly predict the future. If we suddenly ended all carbon emissions tomorrow, then yeah, the IPCC’s projections would be drastically wrong by 2100, because their projections predict continuing carbon emissions. That said, I chose my example carefully. The climatologists who predicted global cooling in the 1970s didn’t predict that we would collectively band together to shut down aerosol pollutions. But do you know why it isn’t a post-hoc rationalization? _Because the methodology for their prediction was right there in the papers_. Because their predictions were not just wild-ass guesses, based on nothing, but rather projections based on existing data. It’s not post-hoc if they say right up front, “this only works under conditions X, Y, and Z”. It’s like if a team of scientists uses relativity and newtonian mechanics to design a flight plan, and say, “assuming we haven’t missed any asteroids in this general area, the launcher will land on this comet without problems”. Then, their spacecraft gets beaned by an asteroid and gets thrown way off course. That doesn’t prove that their calculations were wrong, or that newtonian mechanics fail, do they? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/92 "2017-05-03T09:32:56Z")
I lower my carbon footprint by not driving a car. And by killing people. But I could probably kill more people if I drove a car. No one knew climate change was this complicated! ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/93 "2017-05-03T09:47:55Z")
> [@Great\_White\_Dope](#): > > It’s not just that they’re not living Amish-like atechnology lives, it’s that many are doing the _exact opposite_ – living lives of modern luxury, with immense carbon footprints. We’re talking limos, jets, and enormous homes (I wonder how they afford those . . .), etc. Assuming that this characterization is true (and putting aside the reasons why being a _famous_ climate change advocate may involve lots of travel, and therefore a big footprint), there are undoubtedly vast numbers of climate change activists who do make huge changes to their personal lives to reduce their carbon footprint. I’m not sure what you think would be proved by finding some people not living up to this. > [@](#): > > And what about those climate change alarmists, like Bill Nye, who are open to the idea of criminal prosecution for climate change skeptics? > > If skepticism is the foundation of good science, and it is, and yet climate alarmists want to criminalize skepticism, then this strongly supports the thesis that climate change isn’t actual science. I suspect that he means prosecute those who deliberately mislead the public e.g. they know the result of a study showed X but pay a scientist to go on TV and claim the results showed not-X. In any case, once again, the vast majority of advocates have not suggested prosecution for climate change denial, so your whole point is just an exercise in poisoning the well. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/94 "2017-05-03T10:13:42Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Do I care what an anonymous person on a message board says about me? No, not really. Do you? Well, Yeah. I’m pretty thin skinned. > [@](#): > > Why would you say I am being a disingenuous asshole? An asshole I can understand, but disingenuous? I can appreciate that. \*Disingenuous \*certainly is a harder word to understand than _arsehole_. (To illustrate by example, I was just now being disingenuous in pretending to have misunderstood the intent of your post.) But I don’t know. Maybe you weren’t being disingenuous. Maybe you genuinely failed to understand the intent of **Gyrate** ’s analogy. Maybe you genuinely don’t see the error in supporting an argument suggesting that dire problems caused largely by poor government policy and industry practice would be better solved by individuals making what amount to small gestures rather than by improvements in government policy and industry practice. Maybe you genuinely don’t see why \*\*Skywatcher \*\*would be pissed off by your suggestion that if everyone just did their little part the homeless problem could be all fixed up, bingo bango. Le’me aks you something. Do you \*agree \*with the OP? 'Cause if you think your counter point to **Gyrate** ’s analogy supports the OP, you’re wrong. > [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s like claiming we can reduce homelessness if everyone who cared about the subject gave any homeless person they saw $10. It wouldn’t remotely solve anything. > [@Slash1972](#): > > What if everyone who cared about the subject of homelessness took in a homeless person and, you know, gave them a home. Would that remotely solve anything? You’re basically saying that to solve the problem, more needs to be done by those in a possition to do more. It’s pretty daft to suggest that the person with the greatest duty and ability to do the most good shouldn’t be expected to lift a finger until everyone who cares about the issue has made some token gesture, \*besides \*petitioning the person whose in a position to actually solve the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/95 "2017-05-03T11:23:18Z")
> [@Great\_White\_Dope](#): > > It’s common sense. There’s actually no such thing as “common sense”. What there is, though, is the presence of trolls–especially freaking stupid ones. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/96 "2017-05-03T11:55:58Z")
> [@Great\_White\_Dope](#): > > The beautiful irony of all of this is that, if anthropogenic climate change is true, it’s because of science and technology. > > It’s science and technology which gave us better health and medicine (not to mention easier access to said health and medicine), which lead to overpopulation, and it’s science and technology which have gave us dramatically increased carbon footprints. > > We’ve all heard the talks of the dangers of religion, yet it’s the rise of science and technology which has put humanity on the brink of extinction, according to climate alarmists. > > Heh. Cameron, you would be much better served spending your summer learning about matters relevant to your degree then trolling this board. ---
**Author:** ![1iLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/1ileft/32/4114_2.png) [@1iLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1iLeft)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/97 "2017-05-03T12:43:43Z")
OP’s pile of “common scents” is getting bigly! Courtesy flush, please! bruh. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/98 "2017-05-03T12:51:51Z")
I’m still waiting for all those Trump supporters to personally go defend the border with Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/99 "2017-05-03T13:30:13Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The message itself implicitly proposes a classic “either / or” logical fallacy: If we don’t use fossil fuels, then society will collapse and we will all have a lifestyle no better than that of early hominids.:rolleyes: > > No, we don’t have to live as the Amish in order to want a cleaner environment. It’s possible to have BOTH a modern lifestyle and an environment that remains productive. I know people like you don’t believe in history and archeology, but the historical record shows that civilizations die out completely because of climate change. Wait. What? Are you talking about the Minoans or something? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702/100 "2017-05-03T13:40:26Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > A point of order; even if we all lived exactly like Christ, we’d _still_ be doomed sinners. Unless we ask for grace with sincere humility. There’s no way to know for certain if it will be granted, though. Hence… Faith. > > OTOH, because Grace, living like Christ is not required. Only that we do our level best to follow the precepts and teachings. We’re going to fail - that’s a given. True, but if you really had faith, that faith would manifest itself in works. You wouldn’t begrudge the poor; and the sick; and the strangers to this land whatever generosity you could afford (without diminishing the welfare of your own family) and you wouldn’t beat the drums of war as much as we do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matt-walsh-climate-alarmists-i-can-t-take-you-seriously-until-you-start-living-like-the-amish/785702.md?page=6)