# Matter (the stuff were made of) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2000, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375 "2000-08-15T00:18:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sk8rixtx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@sk8rixtx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sk8rixtx)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/1 "2000-08-15T00:18:26Z")
This is an arguement that started bewtween two of my freshman year teachers: If matter (the stuff that everything is made of) is made from other matter, where exactly did the first matter come from? I would appreciate anyone’s input no matter how stupid it maybe thought to be. Soooooo, take it from here… ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/2 "2000-08-15T00:32:01Z")
it came from the other matter, of course … could you clarify your question a bit? By “first matter” do you mean the ‘primal matter, the ultimate source of everything, the First Cause, etc.’ or do you mean ‘the matter of the first part, not to be called the matter of the second part, whereasmuch …’? ---
**Author:** ![sk8rixtx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@sk8rixtx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sk8rixtx)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/3 "2000-08-15T00:49:45Z")
Where did the primal matter come from? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/4 "2000-08-15T00:57:03Z")
The Big Bang. Next question!! ---
**Author:** ![sk8rixtx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@sk8rixtx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sk8rixtx)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/5 "2000-08-15T01:14:49Z")
Big bang? That answers nothing. Look, in the beginning, there was a thing, not quite sure what it was, probably some sort of gas , but it was matter nonetheless. That is what exploded creating all the stars and the infinite number of universes. I want to know where the hell that thing came from. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/6 "2000-08-15T01:21:43Z")
Last I heard, matter was made up of energy. At least, that’s what a German voice keeps saying in my head. ---
**Author:** ![sk8rixtx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@sk8rixtx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sk8rixtx)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/7 "2000-08-15T01:23:23Z")
Hmmmm, so where did this mysterious energy come from? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/8 "2000-08-15T01:23:24Z")
After an infinity of timeless time when nothing existed, a particle approaching Planck mass actualized (as virtual particles will,) along the pathways of the Higgs field. It mostly anhiliated itself, but symmetry has been proven dead, and all matter that exists is merely the minute insignificant fraction of a percent that was left over from this anhiliation. Welcome to the universe! ---
**Author:** ![sk8rixtx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@sk8rixtx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sk8rixtx)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/9 "2000-08-15T01:24:52Z")
Scylla, kickin ass left and right. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/10 "2000-08-15T03:17:07Z")
SPOOFE Bo Diddly wrote: > [@](#): > > Last I heard, matter was made up of energy. At least, that’s what a German voice keeps saying in my head. Yeppers peppers. In fact, energy can be turned into matter through a process known as _pair creation_. When a gamma ray photon of sufficient energy (at least a million eV) has one of the nuclear forces act upon it (either by passing really close to a nucleus or by some other method), it will spontaneously split into a positron and an electron. The positron and electron so created both have the same total mass-energy of the original gamma ray photon, and the same net momentum. (Yes, photons have momentum – just not very much momentum.) To conserve both momentum _and_ energy, the two particles will have an initial velocity away from one another. (The NET momentum of two objects of equal mass flying away from each other with equal velocity is zero.) The higher the energy of the original gamma ray photon, the faster the two particles will be flying apart when first created. If this energy is sufficiently high, the two particles will have “escape energy” – their mutual attraction (they’re oppositely charged) will not be enough for the two particles to “fall” back in on each other and annihilate. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/11 "2000-08-15T04:03:09Z")
Matter started out as energy in the dense early universe. The energy condensed to form quarks and electrons. The quarks formed protons and neutrons, and eventually hydrogen atoms were formed. The other elements were formed in the stars and supernova that occured since. But you are asking, “Yeah, but before all that, where did the energy come from” Asking where the energy came from is akin to asking where the universe came from. This is because matter and energy cannot be created nor destoyed. Therefore, any matter or energy in the universe now was in the universe at the beginning. Matter and energy are a part of the universe as much as space and time are. Asking where the universe came from requires imagining conditions before the it existed. Since the Big Bang started space and time, there was no before. You can see how this is difficult to answer. Some people claim that time is an illusion, and if that were true your question would make no sense. But I don’t really understand all of that. It makes my head hurt, so I think I’ll quit now. ---
**Author:** ![Mauve\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@Mauve\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauve_Dog)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/12 "2000-08-15T04:46:51Z")
Possibly off-topic (but only slightly) is [this](http://www.circlon.com/HTML/EmcFallacies.html) site, which basically says that the whole matter=energy thingy attributed to Einstein’s **E=mc[sup]2[/sup]** is a whole lot of hooey. Or at least, it’s a misconception about what the equation _really_ means. If this is true, then I am soooo confused… ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/13 "2000-08-15T04:52:37Z")
[Homer Simpson] It’s a ring toss. [/Homer Simpson] ---
**Author:** ![JonF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@JonF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonF)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/14 "2000-08-15T10:37:37Z")
> [@](#): > > this site, which basically says that the whole matter=energy thingy attributed to Einstein’s E=mc2 is a whole lot of hooey. … If this is true, then I am soooo confused… It’s not true. The author does not understand _any_ of the energy transformation mechanisms he/she discusses. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/15 "2000-08-15T10:41:21Z")
**sk8rixtx** Great question! I like the way you hung in there, refusing to accept non-answers of the kind that materialists accuse theists of using. Unfortunately, science is an insufficient epistemology for answering your question. At this point in the game, nobody knows. But you never know what’s around the corner. Maybe one day, you will be the man who answers it! ---
**Author:** ![Phobos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Phobos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phobos)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/16 "2000-08-15T13:23:38Z")
Dr. Lao’s response was good. Matter as we know it (atoms) condensed out of the plasma (for lack of a better word) that filled the early universe once it had expanded/cooled enough. Your question then traces back to where did the Big Bang come from. That is just not known. Maybe we’ll have a better clue if someone can develop a Theory of Quantum Gravity, but I doubt we’ll ever know for sure. All information from “before the beginning” (if such a thing exists) is inaccessible to us. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/17 "2000-08-15T18:11:20Z")
JonF wrote: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > this site, which basically says that the whole matter=energy thingy attributed to Einstein’s E=mc2 is a whole lot of hooey. … If this is true, then I am soooo confused… > > It’s not true. The author does not understand _any_ of the energy transformation mechanisms he/she discusses. No kidding. One of this website’s assertions is essentially that “mass is not transformed into energy in an atomic bomb, because there are just as many protons, neutrons, and electrons after the explosion than before it.” Excuse me, but a nucleus consisting of X protons and Y neutrons does NOT have the same mass as X protons and Y neutrons flying around free. But then, I don’t expect much from a site called “The Absolute Motion Institute.” ---
**Author:** ![Mauve\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@Mauve\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauve_Dog)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2000, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matter-the-stuff-were-made-of/29375/18 "2000-08-15T19:07:23Z")
Well, I’m certainly glad to hear that the site I mentioned is less than reputable, shall we say. I’d hate to think that I’ve gone through life with such grievous misconceptions 😛