# Matthew Shepard interred at National Cathedral **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 12, 2018, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837 "2018-10-12T04:00:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/21 "2018-10-17T13:16:53Z")
Like I posted above, people can say anything. Doesn’t make it the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And the whole “drug” defense was not used until two years after the conviction of these murderers. Why wasn’t it brought up in their first trial?? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/22 "2018-10-17T17:11:06Z")
I’ll add that if one of the killers thought “we killed him because he was gay and we were offended he came on to us” would prove a socially-acceptable defense in a capital case…well, the idea that anyone could conclude that is, _in itself_, a reason to consider him a martyr of social justice movements. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/23 "2018-10-17T18:21:03Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Because those were the charges on which they could get a conviction. Wyoming doesn’t have a hate crime law, so the prosecutors used the robbery/felony murder route. > > Al Capone went down for tax evasion. Note at the time Wyoming was criticized for not having a hate crime law, but both defendants were charged under first-degree murder, meaning that the two defendants were eligible for the death penalty, so that there was little that a hate crime multiplier would have added. Henderson decided to testify to avoid the death penalty. McKinney was convicted of felony murder and given two life terms at the request of Shepard’s family. He avoided the Death penalty only because of Shepard’s father. I don’t know what people think would be a more serious charge than _first degree murder._ Robbery was an additional charge, and there were no stimulants in Shepard’s system so that theory is a conspiracy theory on the same level as a claim that the earth is flat. > **[2011 Wyoming Statutes :: TITLE 6 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES :: CHAPTER 2 -...](https://law.justia.com/codes/wyoming/2011/title6/chapter2/section6-2-101/)** ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/24 "2018-10-17T18:44:36Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Note at the time Wyoming was criticized for not having a hate crime law, but both defendants were charged under first-degree murder, meaning that the two defendants were eligible for the death penalty, so that there was little that a hate crime multiplier would have added. > > Henderson decided to testify to avoid the death penalty. McKinney was convicted of felony murder and given two life terms at the request of Shepard’s family. He avoided the Death penalty only because of Shepard’s father. > > I don’t know what people think would be a more serious charge than _first degree murder._ Robbery was an additional charge, and there were no stimulants in Shepard’s system so that theory is a conspiracy theory on the same level as a claim that the earth is flat. > > [WY Stat § 6-2-101 :: 6-2-101. Murder in the first degree; penalty. :: 2011 Wyoming Statutes :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia](https://law.justia.com/codes/wyoming/2011/title6/chapter2/section6-2-101/) Thanks for the additional information. I was trying to rebut the notion that the police and prosecutors didn’t consider Shepard’s murder to be motivated by anti-gay animus. There was no incentive to bring that in as it didn’t add to the strength of the case. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/25 "2018-10-17T18:53:26Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Thanks for the additional information. I was trying to rebut the notion that the police and prosecutors didn’t consider Shepard’s murder to be motivated by anti-gay animus. There was no incentive to bring that in as it didn’t add to the strength of the case. They also didn’t bring it up for the same reason the Defense did, it is risky that the jury may be biased against homosexuals. As robbery qualified the crime as the most serious form of murder it wouldn’t have been advantageous at all for the state to bring it up. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/26 "2018-10-17T19:12:02Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > They also didn’t bring it up for the same reason the Defense did, it is risky that the jury may be biased against homosexuals. As robbery qualified the crime as the most serious form of murder it wouldn’t have been advantageous at all for the state to bring it up. Right. We’re in agreement and thanks for making that specific point. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/27 "2018-10-17T20:14:53Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > And the whole “drug” defense was not used until two years after the conviction of these murderers. Why wasn’t it brought up in their first trial?? Because there was nothing to it. For example, the autopsy of Matthew Shepard showed no drugs in his system. (I believe even the alcohol from drinks the night before had mostly been processed by his body while he hung on the fence those hours.) ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/28 "2018-10-18T14:57:19Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Because it’s standard [OP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard#Murder) for robbers, after brutally beating their victim, to tie their victim to a fence, barely alive and then go back into town and start a fight with two other minorities (Hispanics). > > Nope doesn’t sound like a couple of hate crime people at all. Nope. :dubious: The reason they tied him to a fence and took his shoes is so he couldn’t escape before they went to his house and robbed that too. That is what they were doing when they got in the fight with the hispanics, looking for Shepard’s house to rob. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/29 "2018-10-18T15:12:22Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I’ll add that if one of the killers thought “we killed him because he was gay and we were offended he came on to us” would prove a socially-acceptable defense in a capital case…well, the idea that anyone could conclude that is, _in itself_, a reason to consider him a martyr of social justice movements. The gay panic defense was to provide an explanation that did not include premeditation. Luring Shepard into the truck with the intent to rob and kill him shows premeditation and thus makes the likely outcome the death penalty. There was never a question in the trial as to whether the defendant was guilty, it was if the death penalty would be imposed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/30 "2018-10-18T16:10:24Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > What part are you referring to as lies? It is established that Sheppard was robbed. Two people have said that one of killers enjoyed threesomes. “Enjoying threesomes” is not indicative of bisexuality any more than watching straight porn is. McKinney denied having had sexual encounters with men in his police interview. I think it’s certainly fair to question whether Shepard’s death was really an anti-gay hate crime (Jiminez himself is gay). However, there’s no reason to question its significance. His murder galvanized the nation. Is he an “ideal” figurehead? No, but there’s no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/31 "2018-10-18T20:46:49Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The gay panic defense was to provide an explanation that did not include premeditation. Luring Shepard into the truck with the intent to rob and kill him shows premeditation and thus makes the likely outcome the death penalty. There was never a question in the trial as to whether the defendant was guilty, it was if the death penalty would be imposed. Pre-meditation is _not required_ for Murder in the first degree in Wyoming. > **[2011 Wyoming Statutes :: TITLE 6 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES :: CHAPTER 2 -...](https://law.justia.com/codes/wyoming/2011/title6/chapter2/section6-2-101/)** > [@](#): > > (a) Whoever purposely and with premeditated malice, **or in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate** , any sexual assault, sexual abuse of a minor, arson, **robbery** , burglary, escape, resisting arrest, kidnapping or abuse of a child under the age of sixteen (16) years, kills any human being is guilty of murder in the first degree. The _gay panic_ claim is a _temporary insanity_ claim. Note that outside of one individual who made up claims, no other source involved with this case believes this conspiracy theory. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/32 "2018-10-18T22:55:47Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The reason they tied him to a fence and took his shoes is so he couldn’t escape before they went to his house and robbed that too. Oh, this is ridiculous. He could never have ‘escaped’ at all; he was beaten so badly that his skull was crushed in multiple places, blood was running out of his ear, and he was already in a coma (which he never came out of). Twenty years later, I get so tired of people still trying to justify or ‘explain’ the actions of these murderers! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/33 "2018-10-18T23:02:56Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The reason they tied him to a fence and took his shoes is so he couldn’t escape before they went to his house and robbed that too. Please do explain what “the reason” was that they also [tortured him by burning](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/hatecrimes/stories/shepard101098.htm) before leaving him to die. > [@](#): > > [Oct. 10 1998] > > Close to death, with his head badly battered and burn marks on his body, he was discovered Wednesday evening by two passing cyclists and eventually transported to a Fort Collins, Colo., hospital where he remains in critical condition with severe head injuries and is breathing by means of a ventilator. Nah, not a hate crime at all, merely ordinary robbery with violence, nothing to see here. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/34 "2018-10-18T23:28:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Please do explain what “the reason” was that they also [tortured him by burning](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/hatecrimes/stories/shepard101098.htm) before leaving him to die. > > Nah, not a hate crime at all, merely ordinary robbery with violence, nothing to see here. No, actually there were no burn marks on his body. The police officers that first freed his body thought they saw burn marks, but these were later found to be welts & bruises from the beating with a gun & fists. The autopsy & medical records don’t have any mention of burns. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/35 "2018-10-19T00:21:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think it’s certainly fair to question whether Shepard’s death was really an anti-gay hate crime (Jiminez himself is gay). However, there’s no reason to question its significance. His murder galvanized the nation. Is he an “ideal” figurehead? No, but there’s no such thing. Harvey Milk is certainly closer to the ideal. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/36 "2018-10-19T00:34:18Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Harvey Milk is certainly closer to the ideal. …and you can take to the bank that were he to be the one being interred at the National Cathedral there would be people questioning why should he deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/37 "2018-10-19T01:34:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think it’s certainly fair to question whether Shepard’s death was really an anti-gay hate crime (Jiminez himself is gay). However, there’s no reason to question its significance. His murder galvanized the nation. Is he an “ideal” figurehead? No, but there’s no such thing. It doesn’t matter if McKinney was closeted, bi or gay. He personally chose to mount a defense that rested on the idea that homophobia was legitimate and justified. A belief that homophobia is legitimate and justified is why particular groups have chosen to push this myth today. The reason he is a good example is due to those facts alone. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/38 "2018-10-19T01:41:33Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Harvey Milk is certainly closer to the ideal. Are there any other gay figures you think should be interred there? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/39 "2018-10-19T02:20:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are there any other gay figures you think should be interred there? Harvey Milk, as a Navy veteran, would more likely be at Arlington National Cemetery. And as a Jew, he wouldn’t want to be in a Cathedral. Anyway, his body was cremated, and his ashes scattered in San Francisco Bay, mostly. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837/40 "2018-10-19T12:08:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are there any other gay figures you think should be interred there? I think the standard is “galvanizing victims of anti-gay hate crimes.” Otherwise, I’d be cool with William Burroughs, Allen Ginsburg, Duke Ellington, Johnny Mercer, James Hoban or Lou Reed, all of whom contributed greatly and uniquely to the American culture. What other parameters are you suggesting? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/matthew-shepard-interred-at-national-cathedral/822837.md?page=3)