# Maundy Thursday, Palm Sunday, et. al. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 16, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239 "2010-02-16T19:42:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/1 "2010-02-16T19:42:31Z")
I _should_ know this, and I _could_ look it up, but I would like some of the Dopers to flex their religious dura matter. **Palm Sunday** - I get it. Triumphant Entry of Jesus. **Fat Tuesday aka Mardi Gras** - Last chance to pork out (pun intended) before giving up meat. Note to my Catholic brethren and sisteren - \*\*RELIGIOUS SPOILER ALERT!!!: \*\* FISH IS MEAT. It breathes. It has blood. It lays eggs. It ain’t a vegetable and it ain’t a mineral. **Shrove Tuesday** - Heard of this 40+ years ago. What is this? **Ash Wednesday** - You use the Ashes from Palm Sunday for this ceremony. **Maundy Thursday** - Saw this in an obscure church bulletin. What is this? **Good Friday** - I understand it, but I don’t get it. What was good about it? Are there religious Mondays and Saturdays? ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/2 "2010-02-16T19:57:49Z")
Shrove Tuesday is another name for Mardi Gras. Ash Wednesday is the day after Shrove Tuesday and is the start of Lent. Maunday Thursday is the day before Good Friday and commemorates the Last Supper. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/3 "2010-02-16T20:01:34Z")
> **[Shrove Tuesday](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrove_Tuesday)** > > Shrove Tuesday or Pancake Day is the day before Ash Wednesday (the first day of Lent), observed in many Christian countries through participating in confession and absolution, the ritual burning of the previous year's Holy Week palms, finalizing one's Lenten sacrifice, as well as eating pancakes and other sweets. > Shrove Tuesday is observed by many Christians, including Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists and Roman Catholics, who "make a special point of self-examination, of considering what wrongs ... > **[Ash Wednesday](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Wednesday)** > > Ash Wednesday is a holy day of prayer and fasting in many Western Christian denominations. It is preceded by Shrove Tuesday and marks the first day of Lent, the six weeks of penitence before Easter. > Ash Wednesday is observed by Catholics, Lutherans, Moravians, Anglicans, Methodists, Nazarenes, as well as by some churches in the Reformed tradition, including certain Congregationalist, Continental Reformed, and Presbyterian churches. > Ash Wednesday is traditionally observed with fasting and abs... > **[Maundy Thursday](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maundy_Thursday)** > > Maundy Thursday or Holy Thursday (also known as Great and Holy Thursday, Holy and Great Thursday, Covenant Thursday, Sheer Thursday, and Thursday of Mysteries, among other names) is the day during Holy Week that commemorates the Washing of the Feet (Maundy) and Last Supper of Jesus Christ with the Apostles, as described in the canonical gospels. > It is the fifth day of Holy Week, preceded by Holy Wednesday and followed by Good Friday. "Maundy" comes from the Latin word mandatum, or commandment,... > **[Good Friday](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday)** > > Good Friday is a Christian holiday commemorating the crucifixion of Jesus and his death at Calvary. It is observed during Holy Week as part of the Paschal Triduum. It is also known as Holy Friday, Great Friday, Great and Holy Friday (also Holy and Great Friday), and Black Friday. > Members of many Christian denominations, including the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist, Oriental Orthodox, United Protestant and some Reformed traditions (including certain Continental Reform... ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/4 "2010-02-16T20:03:18Z")
There is also Easter Monday- the day after Easter. And Holy Saturday, which is considered a really somber day since Jesus is in the Tomb. Holy Week is the week before Easter, and Easter is the week after Easter. Not sure why this is in **CS** ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/5 "2010-02-16T20:05:09Z")
And, of course, the joke, “No, it’s maunday TUESDAY wednesday thurs…” The OP list is not in one contiguous week. 40 days or so (iirc) separate tues and wed from the rest of the list… ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/6 "2010-02-16T20:11:41Z")
> [@ministryman](#): > > I > **Good Friday** - I understand it, but I don’t get it. What was good about it? If your father is the supreme being, the act of dying is a much bigger deal than rising from the dead. The actual/symbolic death of Jesus for the sins of others is the big event, the rising from the dead was more for show. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/7 "2010-02-16T20:12:28Z")
> [@ministryman](#): > > \*\*RELIGIOUS SPOILER ALERT!!!: \*\* > > FISH IS MEAT. It breathes. It has blood. It lays eggs. It ain’t a vegetable and it ain’t a mineral. Hey, if you can accept that a tiny wafer is really the body of Jesus Christ, fish becoming a vegetable on Fridays is a snap. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/8 "2010-02-16T20:15:16Z")
[Collop Monday](http://www.practicallyedible.com/edible.nsf/pages/collopmonday) ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/9 "2010-02-16T20:21:14Z")
There’s [Clean Monday](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Monday) for Orthodox and eastern rite Catholics, and [Holy Saturday](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Saturday) after Good Friday. ETA: We Jews don’t consider fish to be meat, either. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/10 "2010-02-16T20:31:06Z")
Maundy Thursday, Good Friday and Holy Saturday are also known as the [Triduum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triduum). The derivation of “Maundy” is unclear - I’ve been taught that it derives from the Latin for “command” or “commandmdent” since it commemorates the Last Supper at which Jesus said “I give you a new commandment; that you love one another as I have loved you.” Others claim that the word refers to begging or the cups held by beggars. “Shrove” as in Shrove Tuesday is the past tense of the verb “to shrive” which means to confess and do absolution. It’s the day before Ash Wednesday, the beginning of the season of Lent, which continues until Easter. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/11 "2010-02-16T20:43:26Z")
This sounds like more of a General Question than a Cafe Society one. Moved. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/12 "2010-02-16T20:48:11Z")
“Meat” in this context is red meat and, usually, poultry. Fish is the major substitute for protein-rich entrees on “days of abstinence” that are kept meatless – presently the rule, I believe, calls for Ash Wednesday and Good Friday to be kept, with weekdays in Lwent and Fridays as purely optional observances. Fasting can also mean one “real” meal per day, with “a light collation” in place of the normal second major meal. I.e., if “dinner” is an early-afternoon event, with “supper” following, “Supper” becomes soup-and-sandwich rather than another full meal. Likewise if “dinner” is the evening meal, “lunch” is the light meal. This does not ordinarily prevent meat at the main meal, though some people on strict fasts may do so. While sedentary lifestyles may do this normally, it was an act of self-denial for manual laborers. And JFTR, if done at all, it’s done to honor God and to strengthen one’s own will. Many good people do not, even in denominations that once called for it. **Skammer** is correct that “Maundy” is thought to derive from Mandatum, but the evidence is less than ideal to ‘prove’ this. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/13 "2010-02-16T21:44:02Z")
Something else about Lent that often gets missed: Sundays don’t count. That is, because each Sunday is a commemoration of the Resurrection, Sundays are Feast days even in Lent. If you’ve embraced a Lenten discipline of fasting - from meat, or chocolate, or caffiene or video games or whatever - you’re supposed to enjoy those things on Sundays. If you count the days between Ash Wednesday and Lent, it’s 46 days: 40 days of fasting and 6 Sundays. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/14 "2010-02-16T21:52:17Z")
The Wednesday of Holy Week is sometimes referred to as “Spy Wednesday”, as that would have been the day that Judas betrayed Jesus. > [@](#): > > “Meat” in this context is red meat and, usually, poultry. Fish is the major substitute for protein-rich entrees on “days of abstinence” that are kept meatless – presently the rule, I believe, calls for Ash Wednesday and Good Friday to be kept, with weekdays in Lwent and Fridays as purely optional observances. > > Fasting can also mean one “real” meal per day, with “a light collation” in place of the normal second major meal. I.e., if “dinner” is an early-afternoon event, with “supper” following, “Supper” becomes soup-and-sandwich rather than another full meal. Likewise if “dinner” is the evening meal, “lunch” is the light meal. This does not ordinarily prevent meat at the main meal, though some people on strict fasts may do so. While sedentary lifestyles may do this normally, it was an act of self-denial for manual laborers. Current Roman Catholic rules call for abstinence from meat (meaning the flesh of mammals and birds) on all Fridays during Lent, and abstinence and fasting on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. The precise definition of “fasting” varies, but in my diocese, > [@](#): > > Fasting means one full meal each day with the other meals not equaling a full meal. Eating between meals is not allowed, but liquids are not allowed. Abstinence means that no meat is allowed. > > If health or ability to work would be seriously affected, fast and abstinence do not apply. In addition, Catholics are also encouraged to choose something personal to give up during Lent. This is how you’ll sometimes hear “I’m giving up chocolate for Lent”, or alcohol, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/15 "2010-02-16T22:08:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Current Roman Catholic rules call for abstinence from meat (meaning the flesh of mammals and birds) on all Fridays during Lent, and abstinence and fasting on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. If you don’t abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent or fast on Ash Wednesday, is it a sin? > [@](#): > > In addition, Catholics are also encouraged to choose something personal to give up during Lent. This is how you’ll sometimes hear “I’m giving up chocolate for Lent”, or alcohol, or whatever. Is it a sin to not choose something personal to give up for Lent? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/16 "2010-02-16T22:12:13Z")
> [@ministryman](#): > > **Good Friday** - I understand it, but I don’t get it. What was good about it? > > Are there religious Mondays and Saturdays? Per the Catholic Dictionary ([CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Good Friday](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06643a.htm)), it’s not clear why it’s called “Good Friday” - some say it’s a modification of “God’s Friday” - in other languages it’s usually called something that doesn’t translate to “Good Friday” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/17 "2010-02-16T22:28:22Z")
> [@](#): > > If you don’t abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent or fast on Ash Wednesday, is it a sin? Assuming you do it deliberately, and don’t have a good reason for it (as mentioned, there are exemptions for things like health), then yes. > [@](#): > > Is it a sin to not choose something personal to give up for Lent? I’ll defer to **Bricker** or **tomndebb** on this one, since I’m not certain, but I think the answer is no: That’s encouraged, not required. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/18 "2010-02-16T22:35:22Z")
Lenten discipline does not necessarily mean giving something up, either. It could mean taking on a new discipline – for example, a commitment to daily prayer or charity that is beyond what you would normally do. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/19 "2010-02-16T22:36:36Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Is it a sin to not choose something personal to give up for Lent? Lent is generally meant to be a time for penitence, self-examination, and making amends. “Giving something [lawful] up” (candy, say) is considered only one of many forms this could take. Pentitential prayer, trying to right a past misdeed, trying to do supererogatory acts of service/mercy would all qualify too. Failure to get in the spirit of any of these things would fall under ur not doin it rite, but certainly failure to do one particular form of sacrifice would not be an active sin of commission. Now, IANA theologian, but hmm . . . the intentional omission of making **any** effort to observe these recommended acts might be a species of or symptom for sloth, which is a [potentially mortal??] sin. > [@](#): > > What effect has sloth upon the soul? > > A. Sloth begets in the soul a spirit of indifference in our spiritual duties and a disgust for prayer. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/20 "2010-02-16T22:37:41Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Per the Catholic Dictionary ([CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Good Friday](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06643a.htm)), it’s not clear why it’s called “Good Friday” - some say it’s a modification of “God’s Friday” - in other languages it’s usually called something that doesn’t translate to “Good Friday” In this regard, perhaps T.S. Eliot’s [“East Coker”](http://www.loapher.com/blog/archives/000521.html) may be of interest in conveying a sense of the emotive value of the day. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239.md?page=2)