# Maundy Thursday, Palm Sunday, et. al. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 16, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239 "2010-02-16T19:42:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/41 "2010-02-17T15:22:50Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > The catholic church considers beavers to be fish so they can be eaten during lent. My husband collects [beavers](http://www.flickr.com/photos/47571689@N08/)(nicknacks, figurines, stuffed animals, etc. … not that kind of beaver) and we were watching a documentary about them one time and it mentioned that. He promptly exclaimed, “We’re eating beaver every Friday next Lent!” But finding said beaver turned out to be harder than expected… ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/42 "2010-02-17T15:55:44Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > …but only within marriage and as foreplay to potentially-reproductive intercourse. ROFLMAO, especially with your handle Poly\*\* Carp\*\*… ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/43 "2010-02-17T15:57:29Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > The catholic church considers beavers to be fish so they can be eaten during lent. Have any of you Catholics actually eaten beaver? Wait…strike that…I don’t want to knnow, and I don’t want to go down that road…darnit, I did it again… ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/44 "2010-02-17T16:38:42Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > “Meat” is restricted to “of mammals, reptiles and birds.” Dang, that precludes my promoting to Catholics my special blue-belly lizard soufflé. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/45 "2010-02-17T18:19:16Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > I thought it was in the Code of Canon law, and hence not something an individual diocese had any power to change. From the Catholic Encyclopedia: > [@](#): > > Accordingly the Sovereign Pontiff may always and everywhere grant valid dispensations from this obligation. His dispensations will be licit when sufficient reasons underlie the grant. In particular cases and for good reasons, bishops may grant dispensations in their respective dioceses. Unless empowered by Indult they are not at liberty to dispense all their subjects simultaneously. It is to be noted that usually bishops issue just before Lent circulars or pastorals, which are read to the faithful or otherwise made public, and in which they make known, on the authority of the Apostolic See, the actual status of obligation, dispensations, etc. Priests charged with the care of souls may dispense individuals for good reason. Superiors of religious communities may dispense individual members of their respective communities provided sufficient reasons exist. Confessors are not qualified to grant these dispensations unless they have been explicitly delegated thereunto. They may, however, decide whether sufficient reason exists to lift the obligation. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/46 "2010-02-17T18:39:15Z")
It was my understanding that reptiles were allowed, but reptile meat is so rare in most of the world that it’s mostly a moot point anyway. The bit about beavers being allowed, though, is pure urban legend, and has no basis in fact whatsoever. Unless, of course, you take the figurative slang meaning of “beaver”, in which case **Polycarp** ’s answer, though humorous, is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/47 "2010-02-17T20:33:23Z")
The “Pope: capybara=fish” bit appears to be an urban legend; the same thing is told of the capybara, the manatee, and barnacle geese. None of them have any indication of what Pope allegedly said this, only the capybara story of who might have requested it, and there is positively no extant evidence of the alleged ‘papal bull’ (all four stories involve a bull, not any other form of rescript) declaring them fish. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/48 "2010-02-17T21:32:49Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > From the Catholic Encyclopaedia: > > > [@](#): > > > > Accordingly the Sovereign Pontiff may always and everywhere grant valid dispensations from this obligation. His dispensations will be licit when sufficient reasons underlie the grant. In particular cases and for good reasons, bishops may grant dispensations in their respective dioceses. Unless empowered by Indult they are not at liberty to dispense all their subjects simultaneously. It is to be noted that usually bishops issue just before Lent circulars or pastorals, which are read to the faithful or otherwise made public, and in which they make known, on the authority of the Apostolic See, the actual status of obligation, dispensations, etc. Priests charged with the care of souls may dispense individuals for good reason. Superiors of religious communities may dispense individual members of their respective communities provided sufficient reasons exist. Confessors are not qualified to grant these dispensations unless they have been explicitly delegated thereunto. They may, however, decide whether sufficient reason exists to lift the obligation. But why would the Pope, or any individual bishop, need to grant a dispensation when it’s clear that the fasting requirement is already dispensed universally anyway? > [@Canon 1251](#): > > Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, **unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday**. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/49 "2010-02-17T21:44:48Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > The “Pope: capybara=fish” bit appears to be an urban legend; the same thing is told of the capybara, the manatee, and barnacle geese. None of them have any indication of what Pope allegedly said this, only the capybara story of who might have requested it, and there is positively no extant evidence of the alleged ‘papal bull’ (all four stories involve a bull, not any other form of rescript) declaring them fish. The Pope/Church as a whole didn’t ever weigh in on this, but it seems there may be some basis for either theoretical or locally as-applied treatment of waterborne mammals as kosher for Lent (the one I’d always heard was muskrat, but apparently even beaver and waterfowl have been discussed). [http://www.neworleansbar.org/documents/ENews08Nostalgia0213LentenObservances\_000.pdf](http://www.neworleansbar.org/documents/ENews08Nostalgia0213LentenObservances_000.pdf) Wiki also supports the muskrat story, and claims that the Archdiocese of Detroit still grants a muskrat dispensation. Aha – Google-Fu is strong in this one: [http://www.aodonline.org/AODOnline/News+++Publications+2203/Michigan+Catholic+News+12203/2007+The+Michigan+Catholic+News+14936/070309+MCN+-+Muskrat+love.htm](http://www.aodonline.org/AODOnline/News+++Publications+2203/Michigan+Catholic+News+12203/2007+The+Michigan+Catholic+News+14936/070309+MCN+-+Muskrat+love.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/50 "2010-02-17T21:50:36Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > But why would the Pope, or any individual bishop, need to grant a dispensation when it’s clear that the fasting requirement is already dispensed universally anyway? You may be mis-reading a word “dispensation.” A dispensation is an exception to the fasting requirement. Response 1: The Canon you set forth **can’t** be read as absolute because, for instance, there could be instances of medical emergency, disease, etc. where fast and abstinence would be risky to health. Without even looking it up I’m imagining Haitian Catholics, for instance, are allowed to eat whatever and how many survival rations they want today. This is the argument from common sense, which both Jewish and Catholic law are fairly good at when it comes to making necessity-driven exceptions to rules of religious conduct. Response 2: Read two Canons further: > [@](#): > > Can. 1253 The Episcopal Conference can determine more particular ways in which fasting and abstinence are to be observed. **In place of abstinence or fasting it can substitute, in whole or in part, other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety.** ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/51 "2010-02-18T00:54:44Z")
I don’t dispute that countries’ Episcopal Conferences can tailor the requirements for fasting and abstinence to their own particular circumstances. The point that I’m making is that no Catholics (including the elderly, the sick, those in earthquake ravaged Haiti etc) are required to abstain on a Friday in Lent if a solemnity occurs on that day. The question of a bishop’s power to dispense from such a requirement is not relevant if there is no requirement in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/52 "2010-02-18T00:57:31Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > I don’t dispute that countries’ Episcopal Conferences can tailor the requirements for fasting and abstinence to their own particular circumstances. The point that I’m making is that no Catholics (including the elderly, the sick, those in earthquake ravaged Haiti etc) are required to abstain on a Friday in Lent if a solemnity occurs on that day. The question of a bishop’s power to dispense from such a requirement is not relevant if there is no requirement in the first place. Oh, okay, we’re on the same page. ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239/53 "2010-02-18T13:28:51Z")
Pretty sure you [can eat beaver meat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver#In_dietary_law) on [Fridays](http://www.neatorama.com/2009/06/18/interesting-facts-about-beavers/). It’s not an urban legend. St. Thomas Aquinas talks briefly here about avoiding meats that are “[human-like](http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3147.htm#article8)” which sets the basis for the medieval system of classifying meats based on their environment. I’m sure I can find more cites, but I have to start getting ready for work… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maundy-thursday-palm-sunday-et-al/529239.md?page=2)