# Maureen Dowd and "You Lie, Boy" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314 "2009-09-16T13:16:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/61 "2009-09-17T05:44:30Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > [This is not new or unprecedented.](http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/09/12/conservatives/index.html) I’m sorry, what part of that link was supposed to make us feel better about all this bullshit? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/62 "2009-09-17T05:53:37Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Racism may be a small factor in the Obama hate. Some haters may privately be bigoted but have other rationale for criticizing him. But I don’t think race is the reason for more than a small portion of the nonsense we’ve seen. [This is not new or unprecedented.](http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/09/12/conservatives/index.html) Do you realize that school districts were calling parents at home and telling them Obama would be speaking to students and they realized some parents might not find that acceptable and they could keep their kids home if they wanted? That’s exactly how they would treat an enemy or extremely controversial figure. It’s extremely disrespectful and not the way the leader of your country should be treated. If there is a precedent for treating our president that way, I’d like to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/63 "2009-09-17T05:55:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’m sorry, what part of that link was supposed to make us feel better about all this bullshit? Well…at least it ain’t mostly about racism? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/64 "2009-09-17T05:58:16Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Do you realize that school districts were calling parents at home and telling them Obama would be speaking to students and they realized some parents might not find that acceptable and they could keep their kids home if they wanted? That’s exactly how they would treat an enemy or extremely controversial figure. It’s extremely disrespectful and not the way the leader of your country should be treated. If there is a precedent for treating our president that way, I’d like to hear it. Read my link’s description of the treatment Clinton received. > [@](#): > > To see that, just look at what that movement’s leading figures said and did during the Clinton years. In 1994, Jesse Helms, then-Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, claimed that “just about every military man” believes Clinton is unqualified to be Commander-in-Chief and then warned/threatened him not to venture onto military bases in the South: “Mr. Clinton better watch out if he comes down here. He better have a bodyguard.” The Wall St. Journal called for a Special Prosecutor to investigate the possible “murder” of Vince Foster. Clinton was relentlessly accused by leading right-wing voices of being a murderer, a serial rapist, and a drug trafficker. Tens of millions of dollars and barrels of media ink were expended investigating “Whitewater,” a “scandal” which, to this day, virtually nobody can even define. When Clinton tried to kill Osama bin Laden, they accused him of “wagging the dog” – trying to distract the country from the truly important matters at hand (his sex scandal). And, of course, the GOP ultimately impeached him over that sex scandal – in the process issuing a lengthy legal brief with footnotes detailing his sex acts (cigars and sex talk), publicly speculating about (and demanding examinations of) the unique “distinguishing” spots on his penis, and using leading right-wing organs to disseminate innuendo that he had an abandoned, out-of-wedlock child. More intense and constant attacks on a President’s “legitimacy” are difficult to imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/65 "2009-09-17T13:04:57Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Do you realize that school districts were calling parents at home and telling them Obama would be speaking to students and they realized some parents might not find that acceptable and they could keep their kids home if they wanted? That’s exactly how they would treat an **enemy or extremely controversial figure**. It’s \*\*extremely disrespectful \*\*and **not the way the leader of your country should be treated**. If there is a precedent for treating our president that way, I’d like to hear it. But it is not racist. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/66 "2009-09-17T13:30:57Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > But it is not racist. True, yet schoolchildren are still suffering for that overreaction: [Six days after drawing fire for not showing President Barack Obama’s speech to schoolchildren, the superintendent of the Arlington Independent School District announced Monday that he also will not be allowing 600 fifth-graders to attend a Super Bowl event next week featuring former President George W. Bush.](http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/1233599.html) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Captain\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/67 "2009-09-17T13:31:55Z")
[obligatory Daily Mash link][Duuuh, Everyone Tells Jimmy Cater](http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/duuuh%2c-everyone-tells-jimmy-carter-200909172068/)[/link] ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/68 "2009-09-17T13:43:16Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Can we just be clear one more time, Dowd **MADE IT UP**. Absolutely. Taking anything she writes as more than frivolous blather is a serious risk. Life’s too short to even bother reading her. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/69 "2009-09-17T14:14:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Life’s too short to even bother reading her. Not if you hate yourself, and want to suffer. ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/70 "2009-09-17T14:20:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And regardless of the white man’s and black man’s respective ages. (White men would also address **younger** white men as “boy,” but not elders or contemporaries – not even if they were also distinctly social inferiors.) Mostly. **Really** old blacks sometimes got to be addressed by whites as “Uncle.” Or, on terms of personal acquaintance, by their first names (a form of address the black was definitely not allowed to reciprocate). But never, outside a courtroom, as “sir” or “Mr. Jones.” It was that way in large parts of the South well into the 1970s, actually. I grew up in seventies South Africa, and we would call all black men who worked for us “boy”, even elders…we had man who worked in the garden. Who must have been 40 or 50(not sure… I was 6 at the time) and I always called him boy as did my father who was younger then the gardener So for me calling a grown black man “boy” does have a racist connotation, not that he said it… ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/71 "2009-09-17T14:59:28Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > No, I think you’re missing his point – though I should maybe back out and let _ **him** _ make it, if this keeps up. Still, I figure the analogy would be more like what aldi just did: the claim is that “I read a book,” all by itself, sounds a little weird in present tense unless we tack something additional on – in this case, setting it up with a question before following it with yet more present-tense stuff. _“I reed a book”_ sounds about as strange _“You lie”_ all by itself – the implication being that it’d only sound perfectly normal if we threw in some extra stuff Yup, you got my point. (Of course, it’s \*\*her \*\*point, not \*\*his \*\*point. ;)) > [@Carmady](#): > > Also, to me “You lie!” seems like a more natural outburst than “You’re lying,” or, “You’re a liar,” or “That’s a lie!” > > Even more natural might just be “Liar!” or “Lies!” I agree that the lattermost would be a good natural outburst. “You lie” still feels to me like it’s missing something. Can you think of a time when you’ve ever said \*\*just \*\*“You lie,” with no epithet attached? I can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/72 "2009-09-17T15:02:55Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Do you realize that school districts were calling parents at home and telling them Obama would be speaking to students and they realized some parents might not find that acceptable and they could keep their kids home if they wanted? A friend of mine who is a teacher reported that a parent called in and told the school admin that **“I don’t want my kid watching that black man.”** Not all opposition to Obama is racist, but not all accusations of racism are false either. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/73 "2009-09-17T15:08:09Z")
It’s kind of interesting to see the Obama team using bogus smear tactics for once and the opposition getting all prickly. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/74 "2009-09-17T15:18:13Z")
You do understand, don’t you, that Maureen Dowd, whatever her political views may be, is not on the “Obama team”? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/75 "2009-09-17T15:20:18Z")
When I was growing up calling a black “boy” was a big insult. The response would be " my name is not Roy, I am sure you weren’t calling me boy. Nobody calls me boy. You must think my name is Roy. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/76 "2009-09-17T15:21:39Z")
For those of us keeping score at home, Wilson did not say “boy”, but Obama does still hate white people, is a Muslim, pals around with terrorists, and was born in Kenya. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/77 "2009-09-17T15:22:50Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > It’s kind of interesting to see the Obama team using bogus smear tactics for once and the opposition getting all prickly. It’s kind of interesting to see that fluffbrain called “the Obama team”. It’s almost as if that were a bogus smear tactic, huh? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/78 "2009-09-17T16:24:25Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > “You lie” still feels to me like it’s missing something. Can you think of a time when you’ve ever said \*\*just \*\*“You lie,” with no epithet attached? I can’t. I’ve heard that a great many times, actually. I distinctly remember one episode of _Married With Children_, for example, where Bud said to Al, “You lie!” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/79 "2009-09-17T16:36:09Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > It’s kind of interesting to see the Obama team using bogus smear tactics for once and the opposition getting all prickly. We need a smily that holds up a big sign that says, “ **IRONY!** ” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314/80 "2009-09-17T16:53:00Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I agree that the lattermost would be a good natural outburst. “You lie” still feels to me like it’s missing something. Can you think of a time when you’ve ever said \*\*just \*\*“You lie,” with no epithet attached? I can’t. Well, there’s [this song](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwgv94sxlZg). Or as Touchstone in As You Like it put it “If again it was not well cut, he would say I lied: this is called the countercheck quarrelsome.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maureen-dowd-and-you-lie-boy/510314.md?page=5)