# Maus, by Art Spiegelman, banned by McMinn County (TN) school board **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-books-manga\ **Created:** [January 28, 2022, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557 "2022-01-28T10:33:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/81 "2022-01-28T22:36:58Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > At that moment, not the brutality of hanging, a woman behind me went “hmph!” I wonder if slashing a real live cow in halves was a-ok for this woman, though…(that’s the shock scene I remember from Apocalypse Now, never noticed a penis). ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/82 "2022-01-28T22:54:54Z")
N.m. Wrong thread ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/83 "2022-01-28T23:02:56Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I must say I find it odd that _one_ county in Tennessee banning _one_ book has made national news in this manner. They didn’t ban the book, they banned the use of the book in the ELA 8th grade curriculum. A curriculum that is in use in many school districts around the country and is considered by many to be a much better approach than simple rote memorization of facts without context. The ELA program that they use is made up of four modules, each around two months long. The first module is “[Folklore of Latin America](https://curriculum.eleducation.org/curriculum/ela/2019/grade-8/module-1)”, the second is “[Food Choices](https://curriculum.eleducation.org/curriculum/ela/2019/grade-8/module-2)”, the third is “[Voices of the Holocaust](https://curriculum.eleducation.org/curriculum/ela/2019/grade-8/module-3)”, which has Maus as its anchor text, and the fourth is “[Lessons from Japanese American Internment](https://curriculum.eleducation.org/curriculum/ela/2019/grade-8/module-4)”, which has some obvious areas of overlap with module three. I’ll note that this district already had a method for any concerned parent to opt their children out of this curriculum. I’ll also note that this decision was made in spite of very strong, and well-reasoned objections from the people that the district selected to actually pick the curriculum. The minutes of the meeting show that the board itself is made up of a bunch of fucking yokels who hadn’t even bothered to read the damned thing, even though this particular meeting was a special meeting with this book discussion as the sole topic. One of the complaints by the board is that some of Spiegelman’s earlier work was in Playboy. Fuck off, dipshits. [Link to full 8th grade ELA curriculum.](https://curriculum.eleducation.org/curriculum/ela/2019/grade-8) [Link to minutes of specially called meeting because some fascist complained about Maus.](https://core-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/asset/uploaded_file/1818370/Called_Meeting_Minutes_1-10-22.pdf) The minutes are pretty enlightening and, in my opinion, allow the actual idiots to show themselves in this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/84 "2022-01-28T23:06:31Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > I’m sure the real objection is that a book about the Holocaust is disturbing. And it is. > > If you believe their statement, that’s not the real objection. > > > [@](#): > > > > nor do we dispute the importance of teaching our children the historical and moral lessons and realities of the Holocaust. To the contrary, we have asked our administrators to find other works that accomplish the same educational goals in a more age-appropriate fashion. The atrocities of the Holocaust were shameful beyond description, and we all have an obligation to ensure that younger generations learn of its horrors to ensure that such an event is never repeated. Right. I don’t believe their statement. I think it’s window dressing. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/85 "2022-01-28T23:12:50Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Right. I don’t believe their statement. I think it’s window dressing. It’s the Cover Your Ass statement you come up with after the bad press hits. [In better news](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/28/maus-amazon-bestseller-after-tennessee-school-ban.html), apparently The Complete Maus and its separate Maus Vol 1 and Maus Vol 2 are all on Amazon’s best seller lists now in some capacity: > “The Complete Maus” on Friday held the No. 1 spot among Amazon’s bestsellers in the comics and graphic novels category, the No. 4 spot for literature and No. 5 for biography. > > “Maus I” and “Maus II” — earlier published books that are combined in “The Complete Maus” — also shot up to other top spots on Amazon bestseller lists since Wednesday afternoon, when news of the ban first broke. Also a bit about a local comics shop owner in the area buying copies to make available as loaners to any students who would like to read them. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/86 "2022-01-28T23:15:38Z")
Somewhat tangential to the thread but, recently, the Chinese government redid the ending of the movie Fight Club, so that everyone went to jail and the government won. Palahniuk, the author of the novel, had the following to say on the topic: > [@](#): > > “The irony is that … they’ve aligned the ending almost exactly with the ending of the book, as opposed to Fincher’s ending, which was the more spectacular visual ending. So in a way, the Chinese brought the movie back to the book a little bit,” > > […] > > “The strange flip side is that in many foreign markets the publisher rewrote the novel so it would end like the film,” he wrote this week in his newsletter. “Without permission, I might add.” > > “What I find really interesting is that my books are heavily banned throughout the U.S. The Texas prison system refuses to carry my books in their libraries,” Palahniuk told TMZ. > > “A lot of public schools and most private schools refuse to carry my books. But it’s only an issue once China changes the end of a movie? I’ve been putting up with book-banning for a long time.” [https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/arts-culture/591858-fight-club-author-praises-chinas-censored-ending](https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/arts-culture/591858-fight-club-author-praises-chinas-censored-ending) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/87 "2022-01-28T23:50:40Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > [In better news](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/28/maus-amazon-bestseller-after-tennessee-school-ban.html), apparently The Complete Maus and its separate Maus Vol 1 and Maus Vol 2 are all on Amazon’s best seller lists now in some capacity: Actually, I though of purchasing a copy but Amazon now says it’s all out of stock. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@bmoak1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak1)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/88 "2022-01-29T00:11:11Z")
Ooh, I was hoping someone would dig up and post the link to the minutes, There’s some wild stuff in there, like the board member who complained about the pernicious immorality in song lyrics and brought up “I’m Just Wild About Harry”, a song from 1921. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/89 "2022-01-29T00:12:32Z")
I own a copy, and this hubbub prompted me to flip through it for the first time in years. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/90 "2022-01-29T00:33:36Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > If you just tell kids what happened, they may not really understand; they may not _get it_ , as @k9bfriender said. But when you show, then you get into issues of what’s possibly too intense for younger children. I wouldn’t read Maus to a four-year-old as a bedtime story. But that’s not what’s being discussed. And what’s being discussed, again, doesn’t seem to be that the parents think 8th grade is too young and maybe it should be 10th grade instead. It seems to be that they want it out of the schools altogether. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/91 "2022-01-29T00:51:23Z")
heh if I was a history teacher id take all the classes put them in the auditorium and let them watch Schindlers list followed by escape from Sobibor that way the parents would really have something to bitch about ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/92 "2022-01-29T01:20:46Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > [Link to minutes of specially called meeting because some fascist complained about Maus.](https://core-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/asset/uploaded_file/1818370/Called_Meeting_Minutes_1-10-22.pdf) The minutes are pretty enlightening and, in my opinion, allow the actual idiots to show themselves in this discussion. Reading through, I’m reminded of a common complaint I have these days: People are making decisions that affect others without having any idea of what they’re trying to accomplish. In this case, they’re trying to solve the problem that children are banned from cussing but, at the same time, they’re giving them something with bad words in it. But that’s a problem that only exists when the reason to ban children from cussing is " ". Maybe there are reasons for the ban? You need to be able to control how you behave and talk, depending on what setting you’re in? You need to learn how to most effectively and poignantly use your language, to carry your message? In the context of the **objectives** for banning certain behaviors, there is no conflict between the presence of curse words in a the curriculum and the ban on children using curse words, willy-nilly. That discrepancy is, itself, a part of the education. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/93 "2022-01-29T01:26:31Z")
Thank you for those links. As someone who believes that many Middle Schoolers might not yet all have the fund of knowledge or intellectual capacity to fully understand the work, and that other Holocaust themed works might be better suited for that age group in general I now state with high confidence that many adults in that community certainly have neither. And am convinced that as part of that curriculum eight graders could handle it, even if some of their parents could not. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/94 "2022-01-29T09:31:20Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Somewhat tangential to the thread but, recently, the Chinese government redid the ending of the movie Fight Club, so that everyone went to jail and the government won. I see a close link, thanks for the information. I might finally bother to watch it netflix (before the Chinese version takes over the world). > [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@Jophiel](#): > > > > [In better news](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/28/maus-amazon-bestseller-after-tennessee-school-ban.html), apparently The Complete Maus and its separate Maus Vol 1 and Maus Vol 2 are all on Amazon’s best seller lists now in some capacity: > > Actually, I though of purchasing a copy but Amazon now says it’s all out of stock. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I own a copy, and this hubbub prompted me to flip through it for the first time in years. Glad to read that the Streisand-effect is alive and well. If you go to amazon. de or .fr or .es they still have stock. But knowing amazon they will react fast anyway. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/95 "2022-01-29T12:41:09Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Having been born and raised in southern culture (kindly do not capitalize it), I can tell you that parental authority is an _explicit and conscious_ part of it in ways that I personally have never seen in any culture other than Islam. And the current news coverage, again, is literally referencing the affront to _parental authority_ , not the harm to the child. Well, there you have the answer to your early question about what is the primary driver. It is authoritarianism. And it is not happening in a vacuum. > **[Perspective | Banning Toni Morrison’s books doesn’t protect kids. It just...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/10/28/beloved-toni-morrison-virginia/)** > > "Beloved" and other works by the Nobel laureate have faced censorship battles before. > The final days of the Virginia gubernatorial campaign have [featured a cameo](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/beloved-book-virginia-youngkin-mcauliffe/2021/10/25/e6157830-35d3-11ec-91dc-551d44733e2d_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_2) by Nobel laureate Toni Morrison’s 1987 novel, [“Beloved.”](https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asin=B000TWUTYG&preview=newtab&linkCode=kpe&ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_1GWN3P2SQ13AHR9HNWZV&tag=thewaspos09-20) Republican Glenn Youngkin is running an ad bashing Democrat Terry McAuliffe for vetoing legislation in 2017, when McAuliffe was governor, that would have given parents the right to opt their children out of reading sexually explicit material in school. The ad features a mother who says her son, as a high school senior, suffered from night terrors after reading the book. > **[‘Maus’ and ‘The Bluest Eye’ Were Banned By School Districts This Week](https://observer.com/2022/01/maus-and-the-bluest-eye-were-banned-by-school-districts-this-week/)** > > The Art Spiegelman and Toni Morrison masterpieces were both deemed “inappropriate” for children. What you also miss is the element of time, **Maus and books like Beloved where published in the 80s** , so spare me their declarations that only now they figure out how harmful there are to children. (I guess it would be “harmful” in their view by realizing that education like that is a reason why their monuments to bigotry are tumbling down nowadays, because generations now have learned a “harmful lesson”) What you see here is (I expected this result months ago) the result of the fake controversy about CRT (and “Parental authority” about wanting their kids not vaccinated or wearing masks in schools) that allowed many right wing pro-censor people to be elected to school boards and districts in recent days. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/96 "2022-01-29T14:33:42Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I must say I find it odd that _one_ county in Tennessee banning _one_ book has made national news in this manner. A governmental agency in the US is unanimously choosing to engage in Holocaust denial (and yes, that’s what they’re doing, even though they claim otherwise. That is absolutely worthy of attention across the country and across the world. As for the claim that it’s about nude cartoon mice, at the same time that this is going on, prominent Republicans are actually also complaining about a cartoon mouse putting on clothes. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/97 "2022-01-29T14:51:16Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > You know people already ban the teaching of slavery, talk to anyone about European slavery in their African colonies on the SDMB and people will get PISSED. Even mods will deny it’s existence, we got users here who will claim that “it wasn’t that bad” or “I’d rather be a slave in Africa than a free black man in America”. Since this is off topic for this thread, I would love for you to start a new thread in Great Debates and bring cites. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/98 "2022-01-29T15:40:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A governmental agency in the US is unanimously choosing to engage in Holocaust denial (and yes, that’s what they’re doing, even though they claim otherwise. As you said, they claim otherwise. I don’t know how we’d know for sure unless we got to see what (if anything) they replace it with if/when _Maus_ is removed from the curriculum. Unless there’s some evidence in the meeting minutes that @DMC linked to? I didn’t read the whole thing thoroughly. I read enough to know that there’s some form(s) of idiocy involved, but not that particular form of idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/99 "2022-01-29T16:21:23Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The ad features a mother who says her son, as a high school senior, suffered from night terrors after reading the book. These are the people who call _us_ “snowflakes”… 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557/100 "2022-01-29T16:23:24Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > A governmental agency in the US is unanimously choosing to engage in Holocaust denial (and yes, that’s what they’re doing, even though they claim otherwise. > > As you said, they claim otherwise. How many legs does a cow have if the McMinn County school board claims that a tail is a leg? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maus-by-art-spiegelman-banned-by-mcminn-county-tn-school-board/958557.md?page=6)