# Max. amt of alcohol possible in brewed beer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 6, 2001, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803 "2001-11-06T16:14:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/1 "2001-11-06T16:14:33Z")
My copy editor just got an invite to a beer tasting. The beer costs $200 a bottle, has been aged 20 years in used sherry casks, and has an ABV of **45 percent**. 90-proof beer? Now, I though that ABV of (non-distilled) alcoholic beverages was limited by (1) the initial sugar content of whatever you’re fermenting (grape juice, apple cider, barley malt, etc.) and (2) the ability of the yeast to stay alive in the increasingly toxic environment of your beverage (i.e., how much alcohol can the yeast handle). So what’s the upper ABV limit for beer? Is this 90-proof beer created by some other method (i.e., over 20 years, a lot of the water evaporates or something, making it more alcoholic…or they freeze it, like old fashioned cider jack…)? ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/2 "2001-11-06T16:16:54Z")
That cannot be beer, I am sure of it ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/3 "2001-11-06T16:24:35Z")
Depending on teh sugar and yeast, I think the max is about 13%. I drank a beer in france called EKU. “Le bier le plus fort du monde” is how they advertise it. IIRC, it is 13%. You compromise the flavor by trying to jack the proof up. I once brewed a beer that I fortified with Grain Alcohol. I called it “Liquid Fuck Me Up.” I had a really cool lable that depicted the view of a toilet as you are dashing towards it to hurl. IT tasted awful but I guessed that it was about 30% alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/4 "2001-11-06T16:29:02Z")
Well **Toad** I have personally had Belgian Beers where the Alcohol content was upwards of 18-20% 9-10 proof. It is very hard to ride the fringes of a Barley Wine and an actual beer. The beers that I like are a thicker, import. Usually a Belgian brew called ‘Omeganon’ (very good it is corked and should be served cool and in a snifter)is my import of choice. As for the upper limits of alcohol contents, I would sermise somewhere in the 20’s. But your example of 45% seems a little out there and I would have to say it was most likely a barley wine or some sort of distilled wheat brew in used sherry casks. Absolute Vodka is 40% alcohol and 80 proof…Your editor’s beer was more alcoholic than Absolute, I can not imagine it tasted very good… ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/5 "2001-11-06T16:35:19Z")
OOPS I meant the Belgian beer was 18-20% or 36-40 proof. **Mr.Zambezi** I have had a beer in Lyon called **“La Fin Du Monde”** The End of the World. I wonder if they are made from the same company…Very very good brew. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/6 "2001-11-06T16:54:22Z")
**Phlosphr** [barley wine is beer.](http://www.realbeer.com/library/beerbreak/archives/beerbreak20010111.html) Doing some research on beers, [Samischlaus,](http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-001423.html) which I had always thought was the strongest beer in the world, is about 28 proof (13.7-14% alcohol by volume). But apparently, of all things, [Sam Adams Triple Bock](http://alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de/~hiha/1560.htm) has surpassed Samischlaus, at 34 proof. Various and sundry web sites assert that X or Y beer is the strongest, but the plurality agree that Sam Adams has the title, and all the other challengers list a lower proof. Go USA (btw, I have had the Triple Bock, unaware it was the World’s Strongest Beer, and found it yummy). **Toadspittle** , the beer you are describing sounds like the [1987 vintage Thomas Hardy ale](http://www.realbeer.com/maltadvocate/W94/W94HARDY.html) The price may be right, as Thomas Hardy Ale was brewed in very small batches, and it appears the brewer has gone out of business. The ABV and years of aging are off (and it may not be that good - Thomas Hardy Ale should be aged in the bottle for only six years). I last had Thomas Hardy Ale about ten years ago, and it is **fantastic**. Sua ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/7 "2001-11-06T16:56:50Z")
Without some process like fortification or distillation, simply aren’t going to get alcohol percentages past the teens - the most alcohol tolerant yeast strains can’t go past about 20%[sup]1[/sup], and that would be under ideal conditions, not in a beer brewed for other qualities. You can find many lists of alcohol content by volume for many brands of beer, such as these: > **[TapRm | Drink in the Future - Amazing Seltzers & Beers Delivered](https://taprm.com/)** > > TapRm delivers the world's newest hard seltzers, kombuchas, teas, ciders and beers making a splash in New York. Same day delivery available in NYC. We bring you drinks that push the boundaries in brand, flavor, style, and drink innovation, usually... [http://www.riverviewendo.com.au/beer/alcohol.htm](http://www.riverviewendo.com.au/beer/alcohol.htm) They often disagree by a point or two on specific brands, but you’ll note that the top of the first list is Samichlaus at 11.8 %, and the second is La Biere Du Demon at 12%. Both of them have EKU near the top at about 11%. Anything which is 45% alcohol acheived that through some means other than natural fermentation. [sup]1[/sup] - The “turbo yeast” people claim their strain can produce 20% alcohol under ideal conditions: [http://www.turbo-yeast.com/intro.html](http://www.turbo-yeast.com/intro.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/8 "2001-11-06T17:46:01Z")
**philosphr** , your post brought back memories of sipping lambics along the banks of the Loir as a younger man. The belgians are a different breed when it comes to beer. I had one in a great bar in Paris that was a flower lambic. It tasted like perfume. I have never found a fruit beer in the US that has the flavor of the belgian beers. I think I will have to stop by the Liquor store tonight. ---
**Author:** ![keithnmick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90db22/32.png) [@keithnmick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keithnmick)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/9 "2001-11-06T17:46:21Z")
in Sheffield England I frequented an establishment that produced (at the time) what it claimed was the strongest beer in the world. The Frog and Parrot in Sheffiels - Jolly Roger Ale - about 16 - 18% if I recall correctly. The details are a bit hazy, but after a friend and I drank three small glasses each we were given certificates, which we manbaged to lose that night. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/10 "2001-11-06T19:01:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yabob \* > \*\* > [sup]1[/sup] - The “turbo yeast” people claim their strain can produce 20% alcohol under ideal conditions: > > [http://www.turbo-yeast.com/intro.html](http://www.turbo-yeast.com/intro.html) \*\* I don’t know about the commercial breweries…but homebrewers often use champaign yeast (which is more tolerant of high alocohol levels) to reach a higher alcohol level ---
**Author:** ![nineiron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e56c9b/32.png) [@nineiron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nineiron)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/11 "2001-11-06T19:08:09Z")
OK, my friend brought a 4-pack of “Le Fin du Monde” to poker night a while back. I don’t doubt you that it is a fine product, but this one must have gone bad. I took one sip and dumped the rest out. It wasn’t the strength, as I am not averse to strong beers (I liked Sam Adams Triple Bock, which I think was 20% or so, well enough), but this stuff was rank. I suppose it may have been because of the shipping process or a long time spent on the shelf, because it isn’t possible that something is _supposed_ to taste like that stuff did. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/12 "2001-11-06T19:34:15Z")
You can buy **Beelzebuth** , a bottled French beer (possibly Belgian), that weighs in at 15% ABV, at a few London pubs. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/13 "2001-11-06T20:19:40Z")
Well first of all **Mr.Zambezi** I am happy you have tastes some of the wonerful fruity brew that comes from Belgium. My ancesters are all from the north east in Belgium and are flemmish, I have tasted some wonderful brew. I am very happy to hear people out there have similar tastes and similar interests when it comes to good beer. 🙂 **nineiron** yes “le fin du monde” is quite different. It is an aquired taste. It is similar to the palate of a fine wine. When drinking it one must appreciate the bouquet of different flowery mixes and different fruited oaky blends. To me it is wonderful. I am off to the store now…must get a four pack of the stuff. CHEERS!! ---
**Author:** ![keithnmick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90db22/32.png) [@keithnmick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keithnmick)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/14 "2001-11-06T20:24:13Z")
in Sheffield England I frequented an establishment that produced (at the time) what it claimed was the strongest beer in the world. The Frog and Parrot in Sheffiels - Jolly Roger Ale - about 16 - 18% if I recall correctly. The details are a bit hazy, but after a friend and I drank three small glasses each we were given certificates, which we manbaged to lose that night. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/15 "2001-11-06T20:53:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > I don’t know about the commercial breweries…but homebrewers often use champaign yeast (which is more tolerant of high alocohol levels) to reach a higher alcohol level \*\* I homebrew (meads and melomels) and you are correct, wanna get real ugly look for custom bred mead yeasts. Some of those supposedly top out around 23-24% but IIRC they are kind pricey. I normally use champagne yeasts, makes inexpensive and quite potent mead. The problem with doing the higher yeaild yeast thing is bottle conditioning thing. Most beers are bottled with fermentation still taking place to allow them to generate natural carbonation. Beers usually have far more residual sugars than wines so if the fermentation isnt stopped by the pressure in time you get bottles exploding, often with enough force to break adjacent bottles. So yeah you can crank up the alcohol, but like going to 105% on the reactor, not reccomended. ---
**Author:** ![Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milton_De_La_Warre)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/16 "2001-11-06T21:02:52Z")
I once tried the Sam Adams triple bock. To me, it tasted like terikayi sausce. Same color, too. I have to recomend (albeit as an American, and one whose tastes incline more to wine) the beers of Booneville CA, particularly in the context of this discussion the Deep Ender Dark. It’s not Belgian, but it ain’t toobad. So technically, when does beer stop being beer and become sparkling barley-hop-malt wine? ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/17 "2001-11-06T21:09:48Z")
Dang! I got here late. (I love the beer threads.) But anyway, to the OP: Have to agree with what folks have already said. AFAIK, there is no way to acheive more than about 20% through fermentation alone. (Actually, I’ve never heard of anything more than about 16%, but I’m willing to take the word of those who say otherwise.) You _might_ be able to get there by the ice method. That is, lower the temperature to the point where the water freezes, then remove the ice, leaving a higher alcohol content brew. But really, I would think you’d have to distill it (in which case you’d basically have whiskey with hops), or just add grain alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/18 "2001-11-06T21:39:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JCHeckler \* > So technically, when does beer stop being beer and become sparkling barley-hop-malt wine? Never. Barley wine is simply the name for a _type_ of beer, usually more alcoholic than typical ales and lagers, but it is beer - same ingredients, same (basic) method of brewing, etc. Check out my link in my first post. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/19 "2001-11-06T22:08:24Z")
Many moons ago, I read an article in Barleycorn about a particular controversy about just this sort of thing. The conclusion of the article was that the rating advertised by this particular brand of beer (I forget what it was) was that it was some sort of hydrometer rating which could be expressed as a percentage, perhaps “OG”? Anyway, the percentage was a measure of how much particulate matter was being held by the volume of liquid above that of distilled water–or something like that. Sorry, I know that doesn’t help much, but it does seem to be related to the question at hand. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803/20 "2001-11-06T23:29:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > \*\*Many moons ago, I read an article in Barleycorn about a particular controversy about just this sort of thing. > > The conclusion of the article was that the rating advertised by this particular brand of beer (I forget what it was) was that it was some sort of hydrometer rating which could be expressed as a percentage, perhaps “OG”? Anyway, the percentage was a measure of how much particulate matter was being held by the volume of liquid above that of distilled water–or something like that. > > Sorry, I know that doesn’t help much, but it does seem to be related to the question at hand. \*\* Right. Homebrewers take specific gravity readings before and after fermentation. The difference can be used to approximate an alcohol level (it tells you how much of the available sugars were actually fermented). I believe that alcohol is measured differently in the states than elsewhere…some measure by volume…some by weight. As a side note…breweries are generally prohibited from “promoting” the alcohol level of their beer. I have a friend who opened up a micobrewery…the paperwork from the ATF is unreal. There was a time (not sure if this is still true) when your beer name could not even “suggest” alcohol potency. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/max-amt-of-alcohol-possible-in-brewed-beer/91803.md?page=2)