# Maximum Punishment for Juvenile Crimes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298 "2021-12-01T16:44:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298/22 "2021-12-02T15:18:25Z")
How many juveniles in an acre? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298/23 "2021-12-02T15:38:21Z")
Giving each juvenile a comfortable two square feet of space, that’s a bit over 20k. 🙂 But I’m sure we can pack them in tighter. I don’t know how densely PA packs their juvies. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298/24 "2021-12-02T16:50:05Z")
I’m sorry, I should have typed what I thought I typed, especially in regards to my reference to Mr. Affluenza. “American courts do literally treat WHITE juveniles, even ones being tried as adults, with kid gloves” The issue with black juvenile crime, especially with the decision to try them as adults, well, that’s a whole different kettle of fish, one that our criminal justice system needs to seriously overhaul. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298/25 "2021-12-02T19:03:08Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I don’t think any sentences should be longer than 20 years So Stephan Paddock, the guy that murdered 60 people in Las Vegas in 2017 and injured countless more. A guy like that had he been captured should only get 20 years? That’s only 4 months for every person he killed. And then what? He’s free? And somehow that’s not as bad as a guy that took a lot of peoples money but not their life? I don’t understand where some of you get your values from. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298/26 "2021-12-02T20:17:47Z")
You can always find outliers like that, where someone was so awful that how can you ever let them out. But for every Stephan Paddock, there are 100 18 year-olds who were in some gang or on drugs, or whatever, and ended up killing someone during a shootout or robbery, and is in jail for life. I’d settle for the Norwegian method mentioned above, where after 20 years, you have to review to extend the sentence past that. Saying that it’s 4 months for every person makes it clear that it’s about vengeance for you, and I don’t think the government should be imposing prison sentences for revenge. As I said, it should be for deterrence and rehabilitation. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298/27 "2021-12-03T00:38:01Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Saying that it’s 4 months for every person makes it clear that it’s about vengeance for you, and I don’t think the government should be imposing prison sentences for revenge. As I said, it should be for deterrence and rehabilitation. You might get folks on these left leaning boards to agree with this. But not in the real world. At least not in the U.S… It’s not like I am in the minority on this. There is an overwhelming sentiment here that certain acts equal surrender of ones freedom forever. Call it revenge or call it deterrence from ever being able to do it again. It’s just the way it is. For example, we just had an incident in my area where a guy intentionally drove through a parade at high speeds, killing half a dozen people including women, children, and senior citizens. I don’t think a campaign arguing he only deserves 20 years would gain any popular support. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298/28 "2021-12-03T00:53:30Z")
That sounds like an emotional appeal to me, and I think that has no place in laws and sentencing. But, again, we’re not going to agree on this. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298/29 "2021-12-03T00:59:20Z")
Can you agree, at least, that is the way it is here in the U.S.? Whether you like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298/30 "2021-12-03T01:06:53Z")
Yes, of course. We have life sentences without the possibility of parole, death sentences, long sentences for juveniles, and so on. We’re basically the only first world country with death sentences, and we’re one of the most violent first world countries, too. I guess Japan still has it? ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298/31 "2021-12-07T00:50:22Z")
One absurdity about treating a 15 year old as an adult for a crime is this: Suppose a 15 year old committed a murder and was arrested for it. They were released on bail and had consensual sex with a a 25 year old. The 15 year old told the police and the 25 year old is arrested. They are both being prosecuted by the same DA. The DA can argue in one court room that the 15 year old is a responsible adult in order to try them for murder and then walk over to the second courtroom that same 15 year old is still a child in order to try the 25 year old with statutory rape. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298/32 "2021-12-07T01:09:33Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > You might get folks on these left leaning boards to agree with this. But not in the real world. At least not in the U.S… It’s not like I am in the minority on this. There is an overwhelming sentiment here that certain acts equal surrender of ones freedom forever. Call it revenge or call it deterrence from ever being able to do it again. It’s just the way it is. > > For example, we just had an incident in my area where a guy intentionally drove through a parade at high speeds, killing half a dozen people including women, children, and senior citizens. I don’t think a campaign arguing he only deserves 20 years would gain any popular support. > [@RitterSport](#): > > That sounds like an emotional appeal to me, and I think that has no place in laws and sentencing. But, again, we’re not going to agree on this. I consider myself liberal, but I’m with pkbites on this issue. That particular criminal (the Waukesha parade killer) was in fact out on parole for another violent offense. Had he been locked away, his victims would still be alive. In general, here’s my belief on how punishments should be doled out. Non-violent, victimless offenses should never be punished with jail. The person caught smoking a joint, hiring or being a prostitute (assuming no sexual trafficking), gambling, etc. shouldn’t be in jail. I’d even apply this to non-violent drug dealers. Non-violent property crimes like shoplifting should carry minimal sentences, with a whole bunch of room for exigent circumstances like the proverbial mom stealing formula for her milk. She should be given a referral to rehab and social services rather than jail. Violent crimes, on the other hand, should be punished harshly. Sure, every violent criminal has their first offense, but it seems to me that whenever someone is the victim of a violent crime, the offender is always discovered to be someone with a rap sheet a mile long, with offenses like aggravated assault, armed robbery, resisting arrest, etc. Those guys (and it is going to be mostly males) need to be put away for the safety of society. ETA: WRT to children, yes, some aspects of brain development aren’t complete, but knowing the difference between right and wrong at 15 years of age isn’t one of them. At that age, someone either knows, they don’t know but are the type that will never know, or maybe they know and they just don’t care. I believe some people are evil, and there’s no point in trying to rehab them. If that discovery is made at age 15, there’s no point in giving them another change to demonstrate it at age 21. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298/33 "2022-01-12T20:48:04Z")
Are we stacking horizontally or just keeping them vertical? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maximum-punishment-for-juvenile-crimes/955298.md?page=1)