# May 5, 1945 - we shall remember. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 4, 2000, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605 "2000-05-04T22:11:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/221 "2001-11-12T18:42:18Z")
A great thread for Veteran’s Day (observed- but not by my employer). ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/222 "2002-05-04T00:30:26Z")
It’s 2:30 AM in Amsterdam. May 4, 2002. Two years since I started this thread, and 57 years since the liberation of Europe. ::raises beer:: Here’s to the heroes of yesterday. May they be an inspiration to all those fighting for freedom and liberty today, wherever they are. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/223 "2002-05-04T01:33:52Z")
I had hoped to see this thread again but didn’t want to be the one to bump it up. That honor belongs to Coldfire. ---
**Author:** ![kase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@kase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kase)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/224 "2002-05-04T09:39:27Z")
Ditto \*\* Coldfire \*\* Thank you guys. \*_raising glass and remember those who died for our freedom_ \* ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/225 "2002-05-04T11:42:08Z")
Yes. There’s not much more to be said than ‘thanks’. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/226 "2002-05-04T11:51:44Z")
I hadn’t seen this thread in previous years, so now is the first time my heart has been touched by it. My mother’s father served in World War II and, with your permission, I’d like to tell what I know of his story. My grandparents married in 1939, I think, and were living in Surrey, just south of London. I know my mother was born in the summer of 1940; I also know that sometime around them my grandfather was sent to be a paratrooper in North Africa. He survived the war and went on to have 3 more children, but he died sometime around 1970, a few years after we moved to America. In the meantime, my grandmother moved further south to be safer from the bombings. My mother’s earliest memories are of hiding under the kitchen table during while bombs were falling. I’m fortunate enough to have travelled quite a bit in my life. I’ve stood at Ground 0 in Hiroshima and visited Pearl Harbor several times while living in Hawaii. I have great respect and honour for those who left their families and gave their lives so that I could enjoy the freedom I so greatly treasure. Thank you. Oh, BTW, I’ll be seeing Mum this afternoon, and yes, I will ask her about Grandad. Thank you, Coldfire, CJ ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/227 "2002-05-04T12:25:17Z")
They have a saying in Eritrea, which fueled us through 30 years of war till we received our independence. Awet n’Hafash! Losely translated to “Liberty to the masses!”. Raise that beer high **Coldfire**. On a different note I would like to on behalf of the Eritrean people thank you (the Dutch) on their role in keeping the peace between Eritrea and Ethiopia during the recent border war and in thier work of demining the border region. ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/228 "2002-05-04T12:43:59Z")
Thank you **Coldfire** , for sharing this moment with us. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/229 "2002-05-04T13:12:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by efrem \* > \*\*On a different note I would like to on behalf of the Eritrean people thank you (the Dutch) on their role in keeping the peace between Eritrea and Ethiopia during the recent border war and in thier work of demining the border region. \*\* Yeah, when they finally _got_ there. The political tug-of-war that preceded the Dutch UN troups eventually going to Eritrea was quite shameful, I’m afraid to say. A few of the left wing parties in parliament were only going to approve a UN mission if there were “absolute guaranties that there would be no Dutch casualties”. I was sitting in front of the TV, watching the debates, and cursing those ungrateful idoits. Fact one: when you send troups to a war zone, even if it is a peace mission _they run the risk of getting killed_. Period. These are professional soldier: they KNOW this. Fact two: did these idiots think those Canadian and American soldiers got any guarantees when they saved our country half a century ago? Gah. I’m glad the troups ended up going, but they could have been of much more value had they been able to go sooner. ---
**Author:** ![tsarina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f4b2a3/32.png) [@tsarina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsarina)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/230 "2002-05-04T15:46:25Z")
I did end up visiting Amsterdam last summer, during the first week of June. I was disappointed I wasn’t able to see the memorial ceremonies of the previous month, but I thought of you, **Coldfire** , and this thread, when I finally got to stand on the Dam Square and saw the Monument. Allow me to share a picture in my mind that will give people an idea of that great city: the day me and my friends were leaving, we walked across Dam Square on our way to the train station. In the square, we saw a Japanese family, taking photographs of themselves. In the background of the photos, there was an Indian couple, dressed in traditional, brightly colored clothing. They were watching a Scottish bagpipe group play, belting out a Highland melody in front of the Dutch Parliament building. I absolutely loved Amsterdam, and can’t wait to return. Thank you to all servicemen who helped rescue this wonderful city, and all of occupied Europe! ---
**Author:** ![kase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@kase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kase)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/231 "2002-05-04T17:57:05Z")
In 4 minutes time it will be 2 minutes silence in the whole of Holland. 7:58 - 8:00 To commemorate **all the victims of all wars.** I’ll be off for two minutes… (coding fixed - Jill) ---
**Author:** ![kase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@kase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kase)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/232 "2002-05-04T18:32:04Z")
Thank you \*\* Coldfire \*\* for starting this thread. imho it’s good to stop and remember the victims of wars. - Especially \* these days, when anti-semitism is raising it’s ugly head once more. With all my heart: \*\* Thank you \*\* for liberating us. [more info…](http://www.4en5mei.nl/herdenken-e.html) ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2002, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/233 "2002-05-04T20:44:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tsarina \* > **Allow me to share a picture in my mind that will give people an idea of that great city: the day me and my friends were leaving, we walked across Dam Square on our way to the train station. In the square, we saw a Japanese family, taking photographs of themselves. In the background of the photos, there was an Indian couple, dressed in traditional, brightly colored clothing. They were watching a Scottish bagpipe group play, belting out a Highland melody in front of the Dutch Parliament building.** Glad you liked the city, Tsarina. However, the Pariament Building is in The Hague. I think you’re refering to the Royal Palace? Right opposit the monument on the other side of Dam square. But yeah, it’s a nice little melting pot alright. I usually call it the World’s Smallest Metropole, which seems quite accurate with a mere 750,000 inhabitants. **kaese** , if I haven’t said so already: it’s good to have you on board. This place needs more Dutchmen. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/234 "2002-05-05T07:04:41Z")
Well, It just turned to the 5th here in California. My mom spent the first 4 years of her life in the occpuied Nederlands. So I owe a debt of gratitude to those Canadian and other Allied soldiers that liberated the country. And to all those who have gone into harm’s way to protect and defend our freedoms. Again, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/235 "2002-05-05T10:42:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Yeah, when they finally _got_ there. > > The political tug-of-war that preceded the Dutch UN troups eventually going to Eritrea was quite shameful, I’m afraid to say. A few of the left wing parties in parliament were only going to approve a UN mission if there were “absolute guaranties that there would be no Dutch casualties”. > > I was sitting in front of the TV, watching the debates, and cursing those ungrateful idoits. Fact one: when you send troups to a war zone, even if it is a peace mission _they run the risk of getting killed_. Period. These are professional soldier: they KNOW this. > Fact two: did these idiots think those Canadian and American soldiers got any guarantees when they saved our country half a century ago? > > Gah. I’m glad the troups ended up going, but they could have been of much more value had they been able to go sooner. \*\* It doesn’t matter how long they took to get there, so long as they came. The Dutch didn’t have to go, but there they were along with the Canadians in Eritrea/Ethiopia invovled in Policing, Demining, and proving education, health care, and aid to all of those effected. The peacekeepers have done more for the people on the border area’s then both governments has ever done for them. Again, I would like to thank the Dutch (and all the UN peace keeping countries everywhere) for their efforts in rebuilding our two countries, and helping the border families have normal lives. A difference was made. ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2002, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/236 "2002-05-05T19:39:55Z")
Let’s spread around the credit on the Ethiopia-Eritrea thing. [Here](http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/unmee/unmeeF.htm) are the 45 countries participating in the mission, which is apparently led by the Dutch. The Netherlands from time to time shows up on the opposite side of a political issue from the US. However, I’ve always been inspired by how strongly the Dutch believe in their principles, notwithstanding the few exceptions that irritate **Coldfire**. Case in point: the resignation of the government when the report on the Srebrenica fiasco came out. It may not do the Bosnians much good now, but at least they took responsibility. I can’t imagine the same thing happening in North America. I think the Dutch were well worth saving. And I should point out that along with the other NATO countries, they were true to their word in helping to defend American skies after September 11. It’s time to return the thanks. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/237 "2002-05-06T02:13:03Z")
Thanks for this thread, **Coldfire**. I had one uncle that served in Europe, came home healthy and decorated, and had a highly successful professional and personal life subsequent to the war. Another uncle was disabled in Italy, after serving in Africa earlier. He lived a long time, but as an invalid. My father was lost in the South Pacific. I have never in all my years heard a word of bitterness from the survivors, other relatives, or either set of Grandparents. Sadness, yes, but no bitterness. It wasn’t “your” fight, it was “everybody’s” fight; a thing that while unpleasant, had to be done. Thanks to you and the others who posted here for thanking us, but the feeling is that, had the situation been reversed, your people would have done the same thing. It was simply the right thing to do. Now my cover is blown! Anybody that can add will figure out that I’m a _really old dude_ ! ---
**Author:** ![Lennygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Lennygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lennygirl)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/238 "2002-05-06T04:26:23Z")
You know, I almost didn’t even turn on the computer tonight, as we are all tired and emotionally drained as we are packing Mr. Lennygirl of to Afganistan. I have had some mixed feelings about this, to put it mildly. I will not know exactly where he is or when he will be back. I will not hear his voice and I will not see his face. I might get email. I am proud that he is going, and going willingly, but at the same time, I would like to break one of his legs myself so that he can’t go. I am glad this thread was here for me to read tonight; it gives me some hope that what he is going to do will bring some stability to our world and will relieve some of the suffering there. I would like for this to have some meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/239 "2002-05-06T04:55:04Z")
I read this thread last year, and cried, and read it again now, and cried. My grandfather, a marksman in the Queen’s Own Rifles, was the only survivor in his family. He lost 8 brothers in WWI. I don’t know what battles they were killed in, but they were Canadian, so chances are it was in Europe. Our family name has virtually disappeared because of this loss, but it helps to know that it wasn’t for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/240 "2002-05-06T07:29:08Z")
With echoes of \* featherlou\* I too read this last year and was moved. I think of my dad and his classmates who fought and some of whom died in WWII. I know they have been called the greatest generation. I call them a great generation. I won’t use the superlative for anyone, though. We, too, can be a great generation. The chance is out there every day for each of us if we can but see it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605.md?page=13)