# May 5, 1945 - we shall remember. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 4, 2000, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605 "2000-05-04T22:11:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/401 "2009-05-07T15:42:36Z")
A good point indeed. It must be said my OP (nine friggin’ years ago, how time flies :eek: ) was mostly written from a Dutch (well indeed a personal) perspective. But you’re right - the map of Europe would surely look different had the Russians not gotten involved. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/402 "2009-05-07T15:50:06Z")
It’s great that this thread is bumped every year. Each year there are new Dopers who have not read it before. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/403 "2010-05-05T18:33:11Z")
**May 5, 2010** [Canadians, Dutch mark WW II liberation](http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/05/05/netherlands-liberation-canadians.html) [How Canadian forces brought ‘sweetest of springs’ to Netherlands](http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/04/30/f-netherlands-second-world-war.html) [Old friends, old wounds: Canada’s bond with Dutch runs deep](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/old-friends-old-wounds-canadas-bond-with-dutch-runs-deep/article1556998/?cmpid=rss1) [Ian M. Haldane](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/facts-and-arguments/ian-m-haldane/article1556886/) A friend who is a high school history teacher is in the Netherlands today with a group of kids from his school as a part of the 2,500 visiting Canadian school children. This is the fourth or fifth time he has organized a trip for the kids to be there and have a “hands-on” experience of some of the impact of the war and liberation. They will also be visiting Vimy Ridge and a number of other battle sites and war cemeteries. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/404 "2010-05-06T00:02:12Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It’s great that this thread is bumped every year. > > Each year there are new Dopers who have not read it before. Some of us read it each year. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/405 "2010-05-06T00:15:29Z")
My father was in Germany at the end of the war with Patton’s army. I thank you Coldfire for remembering and honoring him. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/406 "2010-05-06T01:30:40Z")
Some of us get a little teary from it each year. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/407 "2010-05-06T02:29:11Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Some of us get a little teary from it each year. 🙂 How can you not? It’s like watching one of those films that makes me cry. Maybe if you’re 20 and have no appreciation of history, but I’m 65, and my dad was in WWII, although not in Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/408 "2010-05-06T03:36:32Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Some of us get a little teary from it each year. 🙂 And some of us don’t want to read it each year because they know they would get teary… However, I’m glad the mods let us bump this zombie each year because it is something everyone should get teary for at least once. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/409 "2010-05-06T11:54:10Z")
Thanks for the bump, guys. It’s always a bit of a thrill to get the post notification in the e-mail on May 5th. 🙂 Bookkeeper, your friend sounds like a great teacher. What a fantastic idea, a school trip to teach those who perhaps by now, didn’t hear the story from their parents or grandparents. BTW, I was in the UK on business yesterday, otherwise I would have responded on the date itself. So, my apologies for that. 🙂 Now, let’s see what else is new on this here MB. 😉 (10 years old, that OP. Damn!) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/410 "2010-05-06T11:55:56Z")
Good to see you around again, **Coldfire**. ---
**Author:** ![Jim2929](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ea5d25/32.png) [@Jim2929](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim2929)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/411 "2010-05-07T02:57:32Z")
> [@Coldfire](#): > > On May 5, 1945, the Germans signed a treaty of defeat in Hotel De Wereld (“The World”) in Wageningen, The Netherlands. Earlier that day, the last German troops had been driven across the Dutch-German border by the Allied Forces and the Dutch army. A five year siege ended. People rushed out into the streets and squares of our country, and celebrated their regained freedom, together with the soldiers that drove the enemy away. The Kingdom of the Netherlands was an independant state again. > > This evening, at 7:58 pm local time, life stopped in the Netherlands, like it does every year on May 4. Everyone observes two minutes of silence to remember that freedom is not something to take for granted. To remember that people died to regain our freedom: compatriots, but also complete strangers, rushed in by their respective governments to help out a country in need - to combat the evil that had Western Europe in its grip. To remember those who have fallen: Dodenherdenking, the remembrance of the dead. > At the Dam Square in Amsterdam, a ceremony is held every year. The Royal family attends it - they place a commemorative flowerpiece at the National Monument, after which the two minutes of silence are announced by a military trumpet anthem. Usually, some 100,000 people are assembled at the square. There is complete silence for two full minutes. It is a very sad, yet serene moment. > > A few years ago, we started inviting German politicians and military leaders to commemorate the dead alongside us. This was a controversial issue at first: however, everyone sees now it is the right thing to do. After all, would it not be shortsighted to assume that no German civilians suffered during WWII? Would it not be idiotic to think that no German soldier was reluctant to carry out Hitler’s evil policies? > The German people have suffered every bit as much as we did. The liberation of Europe was their liberation as well: no longer would they have to exist in a country where dogma and tyranny were the norm. > > But mostly, I tend to think about all those British, American and Canadian soldiers that were shipped to Europe. They had nothing to do with this war. I’m sure most of them were terrified when faced with the knowledge they were to be put in a war zone to fight the Germans. But for better or worse, they realised that liberating Europe was indeed in everybody’s interest. From D-Day onward, they slowly but surely forced back the German troops and finally made their way to Berlin. The rest, as they say, is history. > > Many young men lost their lives, leaving many more family members and friends behind back home. They paid with their lives for something that wasn’t even going to be theirs: my freedom. > > This may, and never will be, forgotten. > > Five years ago, I was a student at the University of Maastricht. Maastricht, being in the utter south of the Netherlands, was the first city to be liberated. In 1995, the 50th Anniversary of the Liberation was celebrated. For this occasion, many WWII veterans from the US, Canada and England came over to parade through our streets once more. In full army uniforms, in their original vehiculs. As I was watching the parade, it halted for some reason. A Canadian Jeep stopped in front of me, an old war veteran on the passenger seat. He was visibly touched by the mass attention the parade drew: a mixture of amazement, joy and sadness was written over his face. I stepped up to the Jeep and extended my hand. So did he. As we shook hands, I told him my feelings. I could only use the simplest of words, as there are no words in any language to express my (our, really) gratitude towards these heroes: “Thank you Sir, for liberating my country and giving us back our freedom”. > > We looked each other in the eye for a few moments more, and then the parade got moving again. But we both knew that some things span generations. Some sentiments, because of their traumatic and historical nature, are embedded in each of our cultures. World War II, and the consequent Liberation, are among those. > > I was born in 1973. Yet, the celebration of our Liberation always has a great impact on me. I will make sure, that my kids will learn to be thankful for their freedom too. And I will also make sure they know who to be thankful to. > > If any of you have a father or grandfather that fought for the liberation of Europe: do me a favour and tell them one thing. Tell them, that they are nor forgotten. Nor will they ever be. We will remember, so that this will never happen again. > > Thank you. Coldfire, thank you for this great post. My brother was killed on FEB 25th 1945. He was buried in maastricht, till we brought him home to the USA. I went to maastricht in 1946 and took pictures of his cross. We still had many family members in Holland, and they looked after his grave for three years. Still have many there today, all over Holland. It is good to know that hunor all the troops. Thanks again. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/412 "2010-05-07T12:33:24Z")
Marley23: it’s good to check in every now and then, even if I don’t do it on a daily basis anymore. How’s the mod gig coming along? 🙂 Jim2929: wow, your brother almost made it. Just a few more months! How sad. Was he buried in Margraten (just outside Maastricht)? The memorial’s website: [http://www.margratenmemorialcenter.nl/](http://www.margratenmemorialcenter.nl/) ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/413 "2010-05-07T17:13:52Z")
> [@Moirai](#): > > I just ran through this thread again, and I can’t believe I haven’t posted the story of Lt. Hank LeFevre before. > > Hank was a new airborne Lt (with either the 82nd or 101st, I can’t remember) and mis-dropped in on D-Day. Of all the guys in his group, he and 6 others were the only ones to make it to the rally point- everyone else was dead or too wounded to continue with the mission. He looked at those boys- his boys, now- and lead the way. Task Force LeFevre accomplished every objective that had been planned for his unit, with just those seven guys. And, Hank brought all seven of those guys through it, and eventualy home to their families. > > Hank was also involved in the Netherlands. He helped to liberate one particular village and it was very important to him. But later, it became downright amazing. > > In the mid-1980’s, around the time everyone was gearing up for the 40th anniversary of D-day, Hank and two friends went to play a round of golf at a local course. There was a singleton there looking for a foursome, so they invited him to join them. The man was Dutch and quite friendly. As they chatted on the course, the talk turned to WWII, all the men being “of a certain age.” As they narrowed down campaigns to countries, to regions to villages, something happened that I consider a miracle. > > The man asked Hank where he had been stationed, and Hank told him the name of several villages that his unit had liberated. The man started to cry. > > **Hank had been in this man’s village, and had actually helped him and spoken to him personally**. The man never forgot the American soldier’s last name from his uniform. > > I still cry every damned time I think about it. > > Hank is failing now, but I see him at church every week, and he always asks about my brother, a fellow airborne and special forces operator. I hate to quote myself, but this IS the Dope… 🙂 Sad to post that Hank passed away last month. It was actually a blessing for him and his wife Mary Alice, as he had been in terrible shape for several years. A color guard came down from Los Alamitos National Guard base for the service. My brother was the only paratrooper in uniform at the church- not surprising, as most (if not all) of Hank’s fellow soldiers preceded him in death. Goodbye Hank. Godspeed and God bless. PS- **Coldfire** , this thread was the one of the first things I thought of when I heard about Hank’s death… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/414 "2010-05-07T18:35:26Z")
On May 5, 1945, I had been in my mother’s womb about four months, happily ignorant of the world’s problems. ---
**Author:** ![Jim2929](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ea5d25/32.png) [@Jim2929](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim2929)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/415 "2010-05-08T10:37:43Z")
> [@Coldfire](#): > > Marley23: it’s good to check in every now and then, even if I don’t do it on a daily basis anymore. How’s the mod gig coming along? 🙂 > > Jim2929: wow, your brother almost made it. Just a few more months! How sad. Was he buried in Margraten (just outside Maastricht)? > > The memorial’s website: [http://www.margratenmemorialcenter.nl/](http://www.margratenmemorialcenter.nl/) MARLEY23: YES MY BROTHER WAS BUIED AT MARGRATEN. HE WAS IN THE 29TH. DIV. 116TH REG. COMPANY “C” FROM NORMANDY TO MANNHIEM GERMANY. HE WAS HIT ON THE BEACH, SENT TO A HOSPITAL SHIP AND THEN RE-JOIN IS OUTFIT AT ST. LO. HE HAD TWO PUPLE HEARTS AND A BRONZE STAR. HE WAS A GREAT SINGER, AND STARTED THE “FOXHOLE FOLLIES” HE WOULD USE WHAT EVER PICKUP BAND HE COULD FIND WHEN ON R&R. wHICH BY THE WAY WAS NOT OFTEN. WE AS A FAMILY ARE VERY PROUD OF HIM. THERE WERE FOUR OF US IN THE SERVICE,3 ARMY, THE OTHER AIR FORCE. JUST IN PASSING, I WAS THREEKS BEHIND MY BROTHER WHEN HE WAS KILLED IN ACTION.–THANKS FOR ASKING. JIM PICK. ---
**Author:** ![Any\_Other\_Name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Any\_Other\_Name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Any_Other_Name)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/416 "2010-05-13T19:16:21Z")
A friend just returned from a trip to Europe and mentioned he’d been in Amsterdam on May 5th. It reminded me to look for this thread which somehow I’d missed this year. Last September I was fortunate to escort my uncle to the liberation celebrations in Belgium. He is a member of a veterans group which has attended every five years, and the welcome the veterans receive each time has been tremendous. He looks forward to each trip, visiting with the men he was with 65 years ago.There’s a large group of re-enactors who help celebrate and welcome the veterans. This year we stayed till September 13th for a very special day in Maastricht on their liberation day. Most of the veterans have family members - children, grandchildren, even great-grandchildren - that have attended these trips with the veterans. We’ll continue to go every five years. We’ve made so many friends, really family, in Belgium; we’ve met re-enactors from all over the world. But I don’t know how many of the veterans will be able to return with us in 2014. Last year, the youngest of the group were in their mid-eighties. I’ve spent countless hours listening to conversations, picking up a fact here, a recollection there. Most of these men don’t talk a lot about that time in their life. If there’s a common thread that I sense in their memories of that time, it was that they did not feel that what they did was very special. They were there because they were needed, they did what was needed. Every year when we meet, we do our best to show them they were wrong; they were, and are still, very special men. ---
**Author:** ![Lazlo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lazlo/32/9678_2.png) [@Lazlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazlo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/417 "2011-05-06T05:24:11Z")
I’m really surprised this hasn’t been bumped this year. This is such a beautiful post. Mods: I apologize if it’s no longer kosher to bump this particular thread. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/418 "2011-05-06T05:57:45Z")
> [@Lazlo](#): > > I’m really surprised this hasn’t been bumped this year. This is such a beautiful post. > > Mods: I apologize if it’s no longer kosher to bump this particular thread. I hope it’s not a problem, because it’s still one of the best threads we have. Thank you for bumping it; I’d completely forgotten to look for it. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/419 "2011-05-06T17:14:00Z")
I always get something in my eyes when I read this thread. I wish I could have my uncle back, to ask about this. He was in Europe at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605/420 "2011-05-07T01:57:41Z")
Thank you. Again. As always. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-5-1945-we-shall-remember/18605.md?page=22)