# "May I see your reciept?" No you department store goon! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 5, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-i-see-your-reciept-no-you-department-store-goon/152847 "2003-02-05T02:29:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-i-see-your-reciept-no-you-department-store-goon/152847/81 "2003-02-06T18:09:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Riboflavin \* > I think you need to reread what I wrote. “you can detain someone… and hold them using reasonable force until the police arrive,” Bad me…read before shooting off my keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-i-see-your-reciept-no-you-department-store-goon/152847/82 "2003-02-06T18:20:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Riboflavin \* > If someone is making a big scene, you can detain them but once you lay hands on them to take them in the back room, you’re comitting false imprisonment, assault, or a similar crime and the person can fight back as if a random person on the street started grabbing them. Admittedly once again most of my experience in this area is detaining/ejecting drunk and or violent individuals. Since the “reasonable force” needed in these cases is much higher than a shoplifter who quietly or cooperatively wait I have less experience with the subtleties. Where would be the lines drawn for handcuff use by private/internal security in a non-cooperative detained shoplifter under NC law. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-i-see-your-reciept-no-you-department-store-goon/152847/83 "2003-02-06T18:41:41Z")
My basic Bar Exam understanding (off the top of my head, without researching this stuff in a long while) is the following: 1. The shopkeepers’ privilege is an exception to false imprisonment law that basically says a shopkeeper has a right to detain a suspect with probable cause just long enough to conduct a reasonable investigation. I don’t know about the shopkeepers’ rights to use force, but, traditionally, the right to use reasonable force in defense of property exists in law, so, my guess is that some force may be used to enforce the privilege. Otherwise, the privilege is meaningless, no? Don’t quote me on that. 2. Battery is the intentional harmful or offensive touching of another causing harm. 3. Assault is essentially the intentional threat of imminent harmful or offensive contact of another causing apprehension or fear. So, swinging your fist at someone’s face is assault even if the swing misses. If you make contact, you now have a battery in addition to assault. If you punch a sleeping victim in the face, you have a battery, but no assault. Telling someone, “I’m gonna kick you ass tomorrow” is not assault because the threat isn’t imminent. Putting your hand on someone’s shoulder is not likely to be a battery because there’s no harm. If you accidentally hit someone, there’s no battery if it wasn’t intentional (or at least reckless). Check your state law for a real answer. If they don’t have probable cause to suspect me of shoplifting, then I could just keep on walking. Although, they would reserve the right to refuse me service the next time I tried to shop there. Also, I don’t think mere concealment of goods in a pocket is typically enough to be probable cause because the customer can always take the stuff out of the pocket at the checkstand for purchase. I often put goods in my pocket with the intent to purchase them at the counter, especially if I intend to fill my hands with other goods before I get to the counter. ---
**Author:** ![Riboflavin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Riboflavin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riboflavin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-i-see-your-reciept-no-you-department-store-goon/152847/84 "2003-02-06T19:51:04Z")
drachillix, your last question is way more specific that I can really answer, my guess would be that you could only handcuff someone who you were detaining, not throwing out, and that that would only be acceptable if the person was actively fighting (landing punches and kicks), not as a routine procedure, but that’s just a guess. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bearflag70 \* > Also, I don’t think mere concealment of goods in a pocket is typically enough to be probable cause because the customer can always take the stuff out of the pocket at the checkstand for purchase. I often put goods in my pocket with the intent to purchase them at the counter, especially if I intend to fill my hands with other goods before I get to the counter. Putting stuff in your pocket to purchase them later is a bad habit to develop. While it may be legal in your state, concealing merchandise you haven’t paid for is a crime in and of itself in many states - not leaving the store with it, just hiding it. Again, it may be legal and accepted where you are, but in a lot of places what you’re doing is a crime and in more places is close enough to one to cause hassles. For example, from the [NC general statutes](http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/statutes/generalstatutes/html/bychapter/chapter%5F14.html): > [@](#): > > § 14-72.1. Concealment of merchandise in mercantile > establishments. > (a)Whoever, without authority, willfully conceals the > goods or merchandise of any store, not theretofore purchased by > such person, while still upon the premises of such store, shall > be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, shall be > punished as provided in subsection (e). Such goods or > merchandise found concealed upon or about the person and which > have not theretofore been purchased by such person shall be > prima facie evidence of a willful concealment. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-i-see-your-reciept-no-you-department-store-goon/152847/85 "2003-02-07T00:06:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Riboflavin \* > \*\*drachillix, your last question is way more specific that I can really answer, my guess would be that you could only handcuff someone who you were detaining, not throwing out, and that that would only be acceptable if the person was actively fighting (landing punches and kicks), not as a routine procedure, but that’s just a guess. I would never bother trying to cuff someone we were not going to detain for law enforcement. If the cuffs come out, PD will be involved. Anyone you detain (especially if you can’t move them) is a flight risk until properly cited or taken into custody by law enforcement. NOT cuffing and or detaining by supervision in a controlled area is actually dangerous. Many people will try to flee if not presented with overwhelming odds against escape. The escape attempt and pursuit will cause further disruption and or damage to people and property. ---
**Author:** ![Soundcow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Soundcow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soundcow)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-i-see-your-reciept-no-you-department-store-goon/152847/86 "2003-02-07T00:25:55Z")
The receipt checking works out pretty well when our customers walk out without grabbing something they were rung up for (and it happens often enough). It also helps to make sure someone’s leaving with a receipt for the proper serial number on the guitar/amp/recording piece for the purposes of warranties and returns. We’re sure as hell not going to return a guitar if the serial number doesn’t match the one on the receipt. In short, if you don’t like being asked to furnish your receipt at the door, then exercise your right not to shop at that store, rather than your mouth. Too many people whine and too few people actually make an effort to avoid situations that anger them. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-i-see-your-reciept-no-you-department-store-goon/152847/87 "2003-02-07T00:50:23Z")
Two things come to mind: #1) The constitutional guarantee from illegal search and seizure pertains to the govt and military. It does not prohibit a store from insuring that everyone walks away with only what they paid for. #2) If this receipt inspection procedure bothers you so much, DONT SHOP THERE! ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-i-see-your-reciept-no-you-department-store-goon/152847/88 "2003-02-07T01:04:57Z")
You know what? I can’t think of a reason the OP deserves any more answers than s/he’s already received. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/may-i-see-your-reciept-no-you-department-store-goon/152847.md?page=4)