# Maybe Charlie can finally return (song of the MTA) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 17, 2021, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821 "2021-09-17T16:36:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/1 "2021-09-17T16:36:10Z")
Michelle Wu, one of the two candidates for mayor of Boston who survived the first round of voting (second round in Nov.) has proposed making public transit free. If so, maybe Charlie can finally get off the trolley. See [M.T.A. (song) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.T.A._(song)) for the story and the song. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/2 "2021-09-17T16:48:05Z")
I’ve always liked this idea of free public transit. For some people, that subsidy would really make a difference. For the rest of us, it should speed things up nicely. ---
**Author:** ![SwissMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@SwissMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwissMan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/3 "2021-09-17T16:54:16Z")
So did George O’Brien not make it through to the final round? I thought he was the answer to all of Charlie’s prayers. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/4 "2021-09-17T17:13:12Z")
Poor Charlie’s been ridin’ that train so long, they renamed the MTA to the MBTA. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/5 "2021-09-17T17:15:01Z")
It does move things along. Missoula’s Mountain Line bus system went zero-fare years ago and the amount of time not spent fumbling with cards or cash in the cold is staggering. It’s a lot more efficient. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/6 "2021-09-17T17:47:23Z")
Keep in mind that the mayor of Boston really has no authority to change the T’s pricing structure on her own. The T falls under the control of the Mass DOT. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/7 "2021-09-17T18:05:49Z")
I found a web page some years ago which posited that, based on Charlie’s likely age when the song was written, he would have been able to leave the train when he became eligible for the senior citizen discount. It’s fascinating as a time capsule, though. The Kendall Square area was massively redeveloped starting in the '60s, I believe. I heard somewhere that it was even going to be Mission Control for NASA. And there ain’t no Scollay Square, anymore. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/8 "2021-09-17T18:08:56Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Keep in mind that the mayor of Boston really has no authority to change the T’s pricing structure on her own. The T falls under the control of the Mass DOT. What would happen, though, if she just basically said “the Boston government will pay the fees”? So essentially everyone has a pass that is constantly renewed for them by their city government. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/9 "2021-09-17T19:00:41Z")
But most of the people who ride the T don’t live in Boston. The bus network is very big and hits many surrounding towns. I’m not sure the residents of Boston would be keen on paying for everyone else’s bus pass out of their taxes. And even then everyone would still need to carry a Charlie Card, keep it up-to-date, wait in line to board, etc. The only way this works if if they eliminate payment completely. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/10 "2021-09-17T19:13:32Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > But most of the people who ride the T don’t live in Boston. The bus network is very big and hits many surrounding towns. I’m not sure the residents of Boston would be keen on paying for everyone else’s bus pass out of their taxes. And even then everyone would still need to carry a Charlie Card, keep it up-to-date, wait in line to board, etc. > > The only way this works if if they eliminate payment completely. I suspect I’m not making myself clear. What I’m suggesting is that the city government pay the fare for those who are using it in the city, rather than changing the payment structure itself. They wouldn’t be using taxes to pay for anyone not within the city. Essentially, if you lived in the city, you could apply for and receive a free pass. Granted, I don’t know how feasible something like that is. But my whole idea was to come up with a way the mayor of Boston could do this without modifying the payment structure, since they do not have the power to so. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/11 "2021-09-17T19:16:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Essentially, if you lived in the city, you could apply for and receive a free pass. But the majority of the people who need a free pass don’t live in Boston. They live in the surrounding towns and ride the buses and trains into Boston to work at blue collar jobs that keep the city running. Giving free Charlie Cards to Boston residents would help many people, but it wouldn’t solve the current problem which is that the T is unaffordable to the people who need it most. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/12 "2021-09-17T19:17:49Z")
LOL Back in the day I sourced and bought an old MTA token for mrAru so he wouldn’t get stuck =) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/13 "2021-09-17T19:37:27Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I suspect I’m not making myself clear. What I’m suggesting is that the city government pay the fare for those who are using it in the city, rather than changing the payment structure itself. They wouldn’t be using taxes to pay for anyone not within the city. Essentially, if you lived in the city, you could apply for and receive a free pass. I’ve ridden a few different transit systems in Europe. They aren’t free, but you don’t have to show proof of payment when you board a bus or tram. That means the riders don’t have to queue up to board the bus through the front door only. The bus arrives at a stop, opens all the doors, people get off and on, and the bus is on its way again very quickly. You’d be surprised how it speeds up the journey. Free passes for just Boston residents would be great, but it wouldn’t make the travel experience any better. I can afford the fare, but I like the idea of making travel times shorter and improving the service for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/14 "2021-09-17T19:38:21Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > LOL Back in the day I sourced and bought an old MTA token for mrAru so he wouldn’t get stuck =) Did you conceal it inside a sandwich and pass it to him through the window? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/15 "2021-09-17T21:59:46Z")
An excellent time to remind people of Tom Lehrer’s Boston Subway Song [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/goJ0QIaXZ-w/hqdefault.jpg "Tom Lehrer - The Subway Song") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goJ0QIaXZ-w) ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/16 "2021-09-17T22:02:41Z")
I can’t be the only one who wondered why Charlie’s wife did not hand him a nickel instead of a sandwich through that window as the train came rumbling through. Maybe she liked that he was on that train? mmm ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2021, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/17 "2021-09-18T00:16:14Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > An excellent time to remind people of Tom Lehrer’s Boston Subway Song Oh my God; I’ve heard of that song before, but had no idea there was a recording of it anywhere. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2021, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/18 "2021-09-18T02:55:01Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > > [@aruvqan](#): > > > > LOL Back in the day I sourced and bought an old MTA token for mrAru so he wouldn’t get stuck =) > > Did you conceal it inside a sandwich and pass it to him through the window? Nope, it is in a coin frame so he can wear it on a necklace or watch chain =) > [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I can’t be the only one who wondered why Charlie’s wife did not hand him a nickel instead of a sandwich through that window as the train came rumbling through. mrAru and I discussed it a few times. I would have passed him a nickle, that is why I got him an MTA token =) ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2021, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/19 "2021-09-18T10:50:37Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I can’t be the only one who wondered why Charlie’s wife did not hand him a nickel instead of a sandwich through that window as the train came rumbling through. > > Maybe she liked that he was on that train? > > mmm That was my conclusion: she didn’t want him to get off. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2021, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821/20 "2021-09-18T11:50:07Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > That means the riders don’t have to queue up to board the bus through the front door only. After experiencing front-door-entry transit, and looking at pictures and examples of the front-door-entry electric trams that were closed down and replaced by buses, I formed the opinion that front-door-entry electric trams didn’t have any real advantages over buses. And that the reason the electric trams in Melbourne survived that period, was because boarding and exiting the wide-side-entry Melbourne trams was so much faster and easier. The disadvantage of side-entry trams was always that the conductor had to move around for fares and tickets: I think the decision to save costs by using the driver to collect fares what what ultimately killed public transport in a lot of cities. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-charlie-can-finally-return-song-of-the-mta/950821.md?page=2)