# Maybe Chik-Fil-A and Dan Cathy aren't bigots? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361 "2013-02-05T04:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/181 "2013-02-07T18:04:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Of course, you would. You don’t care about what is good for society, your polygamy comment made that clear. You just care that society give you a widdle cuddle-wuddle so you can feel better about yourself. So, sure, invite polygamy, get rid of the word marriage, so what? As long as jay jay can walk around with his head held a little higher. > > On second thought, no. Your exchanges with **jayjay** have been barbed but just barely acceptable in my opinion. This isn’t. If you want to be this personally dismissive and derisive, do it in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/182 "2013-02-07T18:06:24Z")
> [@Shiloh2013](#): > > There seems to be an argument here that gay marriage is as much a part of human history and experience as heterosexual marriage. No one here has made that argument. > [@Shiloh2013](#): > > You can’t argue against the historical definition of marriage. And it’s not about dictionaries, it’s about millenia of human culture. Gay marriage inherently means a re-definition of marriage. Yes, I can: it has no bearing on what our laws should be. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/183 "2013-02-07T18:07:29Z")
[Also](http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=marriage): > [@American Heritage Dictionary](#): > > 1. a. The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife, and in some jurisdictions, between two persons of the same sex, usually entailing legal obligations of each person to the other. [And](http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/marriage?q=marriage): > [@Oxford English Dictionary](#): > > 1the formal union of a man and a woman, typically as recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife: she has three children from a previous marriage > [mass noun] the state of being married: women want equality in marriage > (in some jurisdictions) a union between partners of the same sex. Seriously, I’m delighted that you’ve come around. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/184 "2013-02-07T18:13:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which has what to do with anything? I guess he had to insinuate and run. I’ll catch him later. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/185 "2013-02-07T18:25:17Z")
Another consideration is that there is an active, and sizable, contingent of people that want SS pairings to not happen at all. Why should any gay person trust that Lucy won’t yank that football at the most inopportune time? Better to have everything on equal footing directly from the start. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/186 "2013-02-07T18:32:05Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > Another consideration is that there is an active, and sizable, contingent of people that want SS pairings to not happen at all. Why should any gay person trust that Lucy won’t yank that football at the most inopportune time? Better to have everything on equal footing directly from the start. Yes, this is really the underlying rationale for opposition to settling for separate but equal on this issue. Every time there’s a civil union, or even a domestic partnership (which is several levels below CUs) bill or referendum up for vote, it’s as heavily contested by the right wing as actual marriage equality is. If it’s just about the word and folks like **Shiloh** and **gelly** don’t really HATE gay people and only object because TRADITION!, then why is opposition to civil unions or even weaker extensions of relationship recognition so fervent? Don’t worry. I won’t make **Shiloh** or **gelly** hang on those tenterhooks. I’ll just tell you why…BECAUSE IT’S NOT ABOUT THE WORD! The word is only a way to make the opponent of marriage equality not look like a Westboro member. Most of them don’t really care all that much about the word. They just want to make sure they, as defenders of the straight traditions, stay on top of the hill by themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/187 "2013-02-07T18:33:04Z")
Additionally, opponents have to stop saying, “But this is the way it’s always been.” SSM is fully recognized in 11 countries and somewhat recognized in several more (such as the U.S.). It’s already NOT the way it’s always been and hasn’t been for a little while now. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/188 "2013-02-07T18:39:40Z")
> [@Shiloh2013](#): > > It’s pretty obvious biologically what the engine behind marriage being inherently man and woman. Yet many gays want very much to marry. Marriage is not a biological event, it’s a human invention. We own it and can do whatever we want with it. It serves us. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/189 "2013-02-07T18:43:44Z")
> [@Shiloh2013](#): > > My titles all say sedan or suv or pickup truck. But they all say “Title.” Every married couple has different names on their marriage licenses. But they all say “Marriage License.” ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/190 "2013-02-07T18:44:06Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Yet many gays want very much to marry. > > Marriage is not a biological event, it’s a human invention. We own it and can do whatever we want with it. It serves us. Further, I’m pretty sure the engine behind marriage is the codification of property rights. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/191 "2013-02-07T18:46:45Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > Additionally, opponents have to stop saying, “But this is the way it’s always been.” SSM is fully recognized in 11 countries and somewhat recognized in several more (such as the U.S.). It’s already NOT the way it’s always been and hasn’t been for a little while now. And hey, if we always went with “this is the way it’s always been,” women would still be all at home wiping children’s butts and making sandwiches, signs would still be up in the South saying “Whites Only” and we’d still be British, just to think of a few off the top of my head. It’s a worthless argument. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/192 "2013-02-07T18:48:48Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > Further, I’m pretty sure the engine behind marriage is the codification of property rights. Well, not just that. That actually goes with biology and children, because it preserved property for “legitimate” children only. If marriage were about only property, we’d be marrying our business partners. My point is that we can change the purpose of marriage if we want. We did a long time ago - among heteros - and now we can accommodate others who want it too. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/193 "2013-02-07T18:50:24Z")
So, I have to ask here, as I think it will shed some light on the issues here: **magellan** , **Shiloh2013** , do you believe that a human being is born gay, or that it is a choice that a person makes for reasons outside of the scope of this conversation? I’m also unclear how someone being not opposed to polygamy (or polyandry) in a legally defined structure between consenting adults is damaging to the fabric of society. **magellan** , if you could define that for me I would appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/194 "2013-02-07T18:56:19Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > 1. point to the part of “marriage is the union of one man and one woman”, that you consider gibberish. It is a gibberish argument. You are asserting it is so, because it is so. This ignores that marriage has shifted throughout history. Polygamy, chattel, interracial bars. All these things have shifted. You are holding on to the current form, when it is nothing but a snapshot of something fluid and in motion. > [@](#): > > 1. Explain why. See above, and also note that in all your thousands of posts about SSM that you have made, you have never once, uttered a single rational argument for banning it. > [@](#): > > 1. Point to any definition of marriage from a dictionary from Western Culture that either A) does not stipulate that marriage is comprised of a woman and a man or B) was written at a time that such an omission is most likely chalked up to it not being stated because it was assumed. Naturally, if you could provide one of your dictionaries from the 5th century that that included sam sex couplings, that would be very advantageous to your position. My position isn’t that it was allowed before. It is that it should be allowed. When interracial marriage was illegal (in living memory) it should have been allowed as well. > [@](#): > > Feel free to take your time and craft a good and well-researched answer. I need to get some work done now. I didn’t need much time at all. You are simply asserting you’re right, based on nothing more than your say so. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/195 "2013-02-07T19:46:53Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > Now. We have answered your question, care to answer ours? What changes for straight union when it IS called marriage? Still waiting for an answer to this. I answered your question honestly, care to do the same? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/196 "2013-02-07T19:56:10Z")
I can’t believe in 2013 we’re still having this argument. Face it gay marriage opponents: your time is over and done. You are the same people with a different face who opposed interracial marriage yesterday; now it’s homos marrying - and let’s be frank, this is all about boy-boy sex. Marriage is not about the ability to marry someone of the opposite sex. It’s nominally about the ability to marry whom you love, but even more it’s about the rights that are granted to you when you do. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/197 "2013-02-07T20:02:00Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > You are the same people with a different face who opposed interracial marriage yesterday While probably true for some, that’s kind of a low blow. > [@](#): > > Marriage is not about the ability to marry someone of the opposite sex. It’s nominally about the ability to marry whom you love, but even more it’s about the rights that are granted to you when you do. Do you support polygamy rights then? (I do, along with gay marriage). ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/198 "2013-02-07T20:07:32Z")
The anti-gay people are a bizarre breed. Their lives revolve around perpetuating a second-class status for a class of citizens, yet they refuse to be called “bigoted.” When your grandfather was marching with signs that said NO NIGGERS IN WHITE SCHOOLS, do you think he took “racist” as an insult, or a term of pride? Why do you care so much about being accepted as a great person by the people you want to destroy? Absolutely absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/199 "2013-02-07T20:11:30Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Yes, this is really the underlying rationale for opposition to settling for separate but equal on this issue. Every time there’s a civil union, or even a domestic partnership (which is several levels below CUs) bill or referendum up for vote, it’s as heavily contested by the right wing as actual marriage equality is. If it’s just about the word and folks like **Shiloh** and **gelly** don’t really HATE gay people and only object because TRADITION!, then why is opposition to civil unions or even weaker extensions of relationship recognition so fervent? Of course. But even beyond that, consider the fundamental evil of the argument they falsely claim to believe in. “Gays should be able to have all the same privileges of marriage, but it has to be called something else.” They’re saying that even though they can’t come up with any valid reason at all to oppose same-sex marriage, they insist on putting a badge of inferiority on homosexuals just for being homosexuals. It’s dropping all pretense of religious, historical, or semantic concern and just saying that they’re going to legislate spite simply because they have the power to do so. The legal equivalent of “I’m punching you solely because I’m bigger than you and you can’t hit back, freely admitting that you’ve done nothing to provoke me.” What a crock of ridiculous priorities and insane motivations. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/200 "2013-02-07T20:23:21Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > When your grandfather was marching with signs that said NO NIGGERS IN WHITE SCHOOLS, do you think he took “racist” as an insult, or a term of pride? Please don’t link opposition to same-sex marriage, or bigotry in general, to the South, it’s illegal in 41 states, not just the South. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361.md?page=11)