# Maybe Chik-Fil-A and Dan Cathy aren't bigots? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361 "2013-02-05T04:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/21 "2013-02-06T22:15:35Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/22 "2013-02-06T22:28:35Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > You are a very stupid individual. This is a warning for you. You should know by now that personal insults are allowed only in the Pit. Do not post like this again in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/23 "2013-02-06T22:30:52Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/24 "2013-02-06T22:33:18Z")
Bigot makes friends with person involved with leading protests against his company not during the years that those protests had been going on without national coverage, but after the recent media explosion. Invites him to big event that that group was planning on protesting. Now person formerly involved with leading protests writes article about how he and the company are swell after all. See kids, this is Lawful Evil done right. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/25 "2013-02-06T22:39:41Z")
> [@Shiloh2013](#): > > I have no idea what logic leads anyone to believe that gay marriage is a right. The same logic that leads people to think that marriage is a right for straights. > [@Shiloh2013](#): > > It is entirely predicated on redefining marriage. Nonsense. It’s simply extending marriage to more people, not “redefining” it. Redefining marriage would be like what we did by changing marriage from essentially a master-and-slave arrangement where the man owned the woman, to an equal partnership. > [@Shiloh2013](#): > > Civil union with rights equal to marriage is more appropriate. Why not just come up with a different name for what “is” different? Because that won’t work, and goes against the whole point of civil unions; to create an inferior, ghetto pseudo-marriage. Just like there was no point in racial segregation unless the services and faculties for blacks were inferior. > [@Shiloh2013](#): > > This just isn’t true. Marriage is 10,000 years old, and predates organized religion and government. Marriage is undatable. > [@Shiloh2013](#): > > Yes, the separate but equal argument. My take is that that only applies when something that is not naturally separate is forced aside and made separate. Such as segregated schools and in those cases I agree. But same sex marriage “is” separate, or we wouldn’t be using same sex to refer to it. Don’t be ridiculous. It’s an arbitrary distinction created by bigots, nothing more. They aren’t “naturally separate” any more than blacks and whites are; although plenty of people talked just like you are to defend segregation. > [@Shiloh2013](#): > > It is a good one, but too bad, the hets had it first. 😉 And if having to share offends some of them, too bad. In fact, if someone is offended by same sex marriage that’s a bonus; anyone that malignant deserves to be made unhappy. > [@Shiloh2013](#): > > I think this is at the root of it. There is a need to be “in your face.” I see this as nothing but mean-spiritedness among gays. Having equal rights is not enough, they have to take something away from someone else. There are taking nothing away from anyone. The mean spiritedness here is all from the bigots who oppose same sex marriage. Opposition to same sex marriage is purely a matter of bigotry and malice; morally speaking this is one of the most one sided disputes in history, with the opposition not even having self interest as a justification. Just cruelty for the sake of cruelty. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/26 "2013-02-06T23:02:16Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Bigot makes friends with person involved with leading protests against his company not during the years that those protests had been going on without national coverage, but after the recent media explosion. Invites him to big event that that group was planning on protesting. Now person formerly involved with leading protests writes article about how he and the company are swell after all. > > See kids, this is Lawful Evil done right. Not that I’m on the side of Chik-Fil-A, but according to the article, they HAVE stopped giving money to some pretty nasty anti-marriage groups. I’m still not going to eat there (because I never did before, anyway) but I’d say it’s at least a step in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/27 "2013-02-06T23:10:48Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > 1. Even if I did, I would not be a bigot unless I only denied that right to some people, and not to all. Saying that to a polygamist is akin to telling someone who is gay that no one is denying their right to marry someone of the opposite sex. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/28 "2013-02-07T00:20:56Z")
Moved MPSIMS --\> Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/29 "2013-02-07T00:56:01Z")
> [@Shiloh2013](#): > > I have no idea what logic leads anyone to believe that gay marriage is a right. It is entirely predicated on redefining marriage. Civil union with rights equal to marriage is more appropriate. Why not just come up with a different name for what “is” different? Like Kwanza was invented. Gays could call it xyz. “Bob and Steve are getting xyz’d.” or “Are you filing married/xyz’d filing jointly?” Wow. Christmas:Kwanzaa::Marriage:Civil Unions. I don’t think I could come up with a more perfect syllogism to describe the inherent unfairness of marriage segregation if I tried. Thanks, I’ll be holding onto that one for future use. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/30 "2013-02-07T00:58:56Z")
**Shiloh2013** is a very wrong person, if he thinks that the fact that marriage predates modern government is a rebuttal to the accusation that government has, of late, taken over regulation of marriage. Once the government started charging married people a different income tax rate than single people, marriage started being a legitimate issue of legal challenges. It is, in essence, the government giving straight people a tax break denied to gay people. That’s a serious constitutional obstacle, which most of us are not willing to accept. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/31 "2013-02-07T01:00:55Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > 1. I don’t care if people marry more than one person at a time. > 2. Even if I did, I would not be a bigot unless I only denied that right to some people, and not to all. By that logic, Dan Cathy is not a bigot, since he thinks everyone should be denied the right to marry a person of the same sex. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/32 "2013-02-07T01:03:07Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Once the government started charging married people a different income tax rate than single people, marriage started being a legitimate issue of legal challenges. It is, in essence, the government giving straight people a tax break denied to gay people. That’s a serious constitutional obstacle, which most of us are not willing to accept. Is Dan Cathy opposed to civil unions, or just to calling it “marriage”? ---
**Author:** ![Crime\_Scene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e495f1/32.png) [@Crime\_Scene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crime_Scene)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/33 "2013-02-07T01:19:19Z")
Have we established if Dan Cathy is a bigot yet or not? From what I can tell he is no longer donating money to vitriolic anti-gay groups and is shifting the money to organizations that promote family values and such. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/34 "2013-02-07T01:23:04Z")
> [@Shiloh2013](#): > > I have no idea what logic leads anyone to believe that gay marriage is a right. It is entirely predicated on redefining marriage. Civil union with rights equal to marriage is more appropriate. Why not just come up with a different name for what “is” different? Like Kwanza was invented. Gays could call it xyz. “Bob and Steve are getting xyz’d.” or “Are you filing married/xyz’d filing jointly?” In contrast to several other SSM advocates on this board, I am quite willing to acknowledge that same sex marriage does redefine the way that the word marriage has been used for a few millennia. However, the reasons for that definition began decades before the first call for the recognition of SSM and that redefinition is nothing more than a recognition of changes that have already occurred in society, at large. Here are two facts: [ul] [li]the ties binding marriage, sexuality, and child rearing have long since been irrevocably broken\* and [/li][li]there are numerous societies that have already recognized that breakage, recognizing SSM not only in concept but in law.[/ul][/li]In light of these facts, arguing that we need a “new word” for SSM is neither rational nor productive. > [@phouka](#): > > Because marriage was originally a religious act that was taken over by the government. This statement is not accurate. The vast majority of our laws and traditions regarding marriage in Western society derive from Roman civil law, not religion. The government did not “take over” a “religious act.” Rather, the entwined nature of religion and government that has generally occurred in most societies throughout history has led to confusion regarding the various roles each played, but marriage, an act that provides regulations for spousal conduct, child rearing, inheritance, and so forth, has always been a matter of civil law, even when enforced through religious conventions or beliefs. - Chemical birth control on the one hand and various methods of procreation that no longer require copulation on the other, have severed the necessary relationships of marriage, sexuality, and child rearing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/35 "2013-02-07T01:28:05Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Cathy still wants to prevent people from marrying who they want if they are of the same sex? He’s still bigot. This is just the next version of “some of my best friends are black”. Of course, sometimes they **are.** ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/36 "2013-02-07T01:31:18Z")
> [@Shiloh2013](#): > > Yes, the separate but equal argument. My take is that that only applies when something that is not naturally separate is forced aside and made separate. Such as segregated schools and in those cases I agree. “Naturally” is a weird word to use here. Marriage is a purely human social custom. It has no “natural” attributes other than what we choose to assign it. Race, on the other hand, is arguably something that is “naturally” separate, in that distinct human phenotypes evolved in vastly separated geographical locations - white people come from Europe, black people come from Africa, Asians come from Asia, etc. Whereas every culture in the history of the species has had native-born homosexuals in it. If you’re going to use (a highly suspect definition of) “natural” to argue for marriage segregation, you’re going to need to do a lot of work to explain why the same logic doesn’t apply to racial segregation. > [@](#): > > But same sex marriage “is” separate, or we wouldn’t be using same sex to refer to it. In common, everyday usage, we don’t use “same sex” to refer to it. Two guys who get married don’t describe themselves as “same sex married,” they just refer to themselves as “married.” The distinction between straight and gay marriage is purely an artifact of the legal and political fight over equal treatment of gays. The term is almost certainly going to be erased from the cultural lexicon in about a generation or two after the fight is resolved. > [@](#): > > May as well say that the separation between male and female is artificial, and that we all have the right to declare ourselves to be of whatever sex we want. Trans rights are a whole 'nother debate, and we shouldn’t hijack this one to discuss it. > [@](#): > > It is a good one, but too bad, the hets had it first. > > I think this is at the root of it. There is a need to be “in your face.” I see this as nothing but mean-spiritedness among gays. I trust the irony in the juxtaposition of these two quotes is sufficiently obvious to not need further elaboration. > [@](#): > > Having equal rights is not enough, they have to take something away from someone else. In what manner does allowing gays to get married take anything away from anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/37 "2013-02-07T01:34:27Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Do you want to prevent people from marrying more than one person at a time? If so, you’re a bigot by your own definition. Are you poly yourself? I only ask because I have yet to meet a poly person who feels this is a valid comparison, and I’m wondering if you might be my first in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/38 "2013-02-07T01:38:29Z")
> [@Crime\_Scene](#): > > Have we established if Dan Cathy is a bigot yet or not? From what I can tell he is no longer donating money to vitriolic anti-gay groups and is shifting the money to organizations that promote family values and such. Are there any organizations that promote “family values” that are not opposed to marriage equality? In my experience, the term is almost always a dog whistle for homophobia. Regardless, merely dropping out of the debate isn’t sufficient to demonstrate a change of heart over his previous actions. He would, at the very least, need to publicly repudiate his previous position in order to demonstrate that he’s done anything more than learn not to touch a hot stove twice. ---
**Author:** ![Crime\_Scene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e495f1/32.png) [@Crime\_Scene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crime_Scene)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/39 "2013-02-07T01:39:40Z")
bigot   Use Bigot in a sentence big·ot [big-uht] Show IPA noun a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion. By this definition, I do not think Dan Cathy is a bigot. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/40 "2013-02-07T01:43:22Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > By that logic, Dan Cathy is not a bigot, since he thinks everyone should be denied the right to marry a person of the same sex. Bad logic. Using the same kind of weird set-theory, a guy who hates Haitian blacks isn’t a bigot, because he doesn’t hate all blacks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361.md?page=3)